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Old 01-19-2015, 08:24 PM   #31
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Many thanks Bookworm_Girl and fantasy fan for those links. I have read the obituary and will get on to J B Burnett shortly, as that looks quite substantial.

Lots of food for thought in Four Quartets, as I predicted!
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:06 PM   #32
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I thoroughly enjoyed this re-exploration or Four Quartets. Of course, as I mentioned elsewhere, one never really "finishes" reading poetry of this calibre--any more than one "finishes" a Beethoven Late Quartet. Always there are subtleties, insights, emotional ambiences waiting.

I still prefer the first and last Quartets, but I found some beautiful things in the others. I found this Epiphany moment in "East Coker" very moving:

"Love is most nearly itself
When here and now cease to matter.
Old men ought to be explorers
Here or there does not matter
We must be still and still moving
Into another intensity
For a further union, a deeper communion
Through the dark cold and the empty desolation,
The wave cry, the wind cry, the vast waters
Of the petrel and the porpoise. In my end is my beginning."

Luminous moments like this have a Spiritual power one never forgets and longs to revisit.
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Old 01-25-2015, 01:14 PM   #33
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Okay, I really tried. I did! I just don't seem able to appreciate poetry of this kind at all.

I read all the wonderful comments of appreciation and I want so badly to have the same experience, but 10 minutes of reading and I just want to open a novel and get into some characters and a story. I may have appreciated the Lou Reid collection best because I can hear the songs as I read the lyrics. And with songs, I've likely taken many previous opportunities to weave them into my own meaning-making. My favourite lyricist is Nick Cave and I can read his lyrics/poetry for that reason; they've become a part of me.

Reading Eliot's poetry produced a desire in me to reread Echard Tolle's first book. I'm sure that sounds strange, but fully existing in the now was the dominant theme for me and I'd rather just be told to be there by Tolle. Odd, I know, but that's what it did for me.
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:39 PM   #34
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I think that's fair enough ccowie. Poetry is such a personal taste, and one that plenty of people don't care for at all, that it's almost impossible to find a poet or poems that we would all enjoy.

So while I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the poems as some of the rest of us did, I think your response is absolutely valid.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:45 PM   #35
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I finished! Now I'm reflecting. I plan to listen to one of the audio links over the weekend.

I give it a favorable review. This poetry is the type that I could envision revisiting in the future and seeing what additional or different meaning I got out of it at a different phase in life.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:51 PM   #36
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Eliot criticized Hamlet on the grounds that Hamlets reaction is not in proportion to the situation. I learned Hamlet in school and loved it

I do recommend that readers unfamiliar with Eliot begin with something lighter. The Hollow Men is pretty accessible. Marlon Brando adlibed it in Apocalypse Now.

Quote:
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Last edited by Rizla; 01-27-2015 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Bookpossum View Post
Yes, I have heard recordings of him reading his own poetry. I suppose living in England over a long period made him sound more English. After living in England for a year or more, I was surprised to find that people didn't realise I was an Australian - I had blended in without particularly trying to do so.
The Australian accent comes from the 19th century London accent. They are very close. The American accent comes from the Irish accent, and the British upper class accent comes from God knows where--French and German influenced I suppose. The point I'm making is that I think Eliot must have deliberately chosen to speak with that accent. I don't think it would have developed naturally because it is so far from his presumably native east-coast American accent. I could be wrong. He might have reverted to American when not delivering recitals.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:47 PM   #38
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So I really tried to if not like this month's selection to at least get it. That is understand why so many, why so many here in the Literary Club, enjoyed and found such significance in this. I even read Burnt Norton twice to make sure that I gave it least that a double chance.

In the end though all I saw in it was blah, blah, blah. Mental masturbation written out. I guess that I'm just not a spiritual enough person .

Last edited by Hamlet53; 02-01-2015 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:20 PM   #39
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Never mind Hamlet - we can't all be enlightened! (Only kidding.)

Let's hope you enjoy whatever we choose from HIMS' list.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:52 AM   #40
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So I really tried to if not like this month's selection to at least get it. That is understand why so many, why so many here in the Literary Club, enjoyed and found such significance in this. I even read Burnt Norton twice to make sure that I gave it least that a double chance.

In the end though all I saw in it was blah, blah, blah. Mental masturbation written out. I guess that I'm just not a spiritual enough person .
No, the mental masturbation written out award goes to Roland Barthes' Mythologies that I read last year. I apologize for nominating it for non-fiction the one year.

Reading is reading. Some times we like things, some times we don't. Some times we can appreciate what the author is doing even when we don't really become engaged by it and some times we can't. The most interesting thing about reading that I've found is some times it is the reader, some times it is the book, but most times it is the reader's context when reading a book that makes things magical.

And I'm sure in the right context I would have enjoyed Mythologies, but I didn't.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:46 PM   #41
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I really enjoyed this. A beautiful stillness, a meditation, a metaphysical melancholy permeated. My favourite was East Coker even though it was probably the darkest overall.

"Dawn points, and another day
Prepares for heat and silence. Out at sea the dawn wind
Wrinkles and slides. I am here
Or there, or elsewhere. In my beginning."


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Every word that's sputtered seemed like a turmoil and calm and turmoil yet again. I like it. I like all the sequence of T.S. Elliot's words dance around my mind and project what he's trying to say. (I also like how he draws his conclusions) (Hello btw everyone)
Hello and welcome, Lin!
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:40 PM   #42
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Oh good, I'm glad you enjoyed them John. Well, eight out of 11 who read them liked or loved the poems, so at least it's a solid pass mark!

I do think that poetry is a bit of a problematic category though, and maybe one that should be put to the vote come mid year. It's such a personal taste thing that I'm actually surprised Eliot did so well.
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