Sentences We Love

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by NatCh

"Any technology that is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
-- some smart-aleck geek or other, I expect

Good Clarke corollary! Does anyone have Sir Arthur's e-mail address?

[RWood]

This is too good of a set-up for an old joke to let go

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

... Does anyone have Sir Arthur's e-mail address?

No, but we do have Lincoln's Gettysburg Address

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by alex_d

"Any technology that is sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic" is just a meaningless, irrelevant sentence.

Perhaps so. now. However, it was a good deal less so when it was originally written.

I'm not sure when it was originally written but I believe I remember hearing it most of my life, including a time when people did perform the modern equivalent of Neanderthal oooing and ahhhing over the Apple Plus computers, having no clue how they worked.

All that being said, alex_d, I do see your point, that most of our society has gotten over this level of awe because we're just flooded with devices who's functioning principles we don't begin to grasp.

But the quote is a germinal one, and still holds a lot of power for at lot of folks. Perhaps not the least because we want to have technology that is sufficiently advance as to be indistinguishable from magic.

[alex_d]

But the quote is a germinal one, and still holds a lot of power for at lot of folks. Perhaps not the least because we want to have technology that is sufficiently advance as to be indistinguishable from magic.

Well put

[NatCh]

Thank you, I had to put some effort into that line, as it happens.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by alex_d

We take for granted that technology has no limits, that it's not even limited by our imagination.

Anyone who truly believes that is a caveman with a God complex. The very idea that we'll someday be able to figure out absolutely everything, if we just think hard enough about it, is the highest form of egotism based on ignorance.

Originally Posted by RWood

This is too good of a set-up for an old joke to let go
No, but we do have Lincoln's Gettysburg Address

Ooohhhh... y' got me...

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Anyone who truly believes that is a caveman with a God complex.

Or one of the multitude of folks I pass every day on the street who just don't think very much about the world around them.

I wouldn't argue a bit with the rest of your statement, though, Steve.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Anyone who truly believes that is a caveman with a God complex. The very idea that we'll someday be able to figure out absolutely everything, if we just think hard enough about it, is the highest form of egotism based on ignorance.

Better that, surely, than the attitude "we don't understand it, so let's not even try to find out about it, but instead just attribute it to an invisible supernatural being"? As a scientist, I certainly don't claim to understand everything in the world, but it's an anathema to me to think that there are things that can't be explained. Anything has the potential to be understood, if one does enough research to understand it. That's what the "scientific method" is all about.

I was horrified to see on the BBC news this morning that a "Creationist" museum has just opened in the USA. Creationism???? For goodness sake - have 300 years of the "enlightenment" all been in vain?

Seeing things like that truly makes me despair for our future. Some people seem to want to go back to the days when we were living in caves, attributing everything unknown to "gods".

[NatCh]

Personally, I find that idea that the universe was designed requires a much smaller leap of faith than the idea that it all happened by accident.

But I'm willing to agree to disagree on the point, HarryT.

[JSWolf]

The universe was created one day when God sneezed. The galactic soup is really just a bunch of snot.

[kovidgoyal]

The interesting question when it comes to the Universe is really "Can we know how the Universe was created?"

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The universe was created one day when God sneezed. The galactic soup is really just a bunch of snot.

"Repent, for the Great White Handkerchief is at hand," eh JSWolf?

That's just snot so.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As a scientist, I certainly don't claim to understand everything in the world, but it's an anathema to me to think that there are things that can't be explained. Anything has the potential to be understood, if one does enough research to understand it. That's what the "scientific method" is all about.

That's true. However, scientific method requires the ability to test and prove hypotheses and theories to establish scientific laws and facts. Man may correctly theorize answers to absolutely every question out there, but I do not believe Man will ever have the ability to test and prove hypotheses, and therefore solve, absolutely every question out there. Those limitations will be based on the physical limitations of Man, something we have a limited ability to change.

Unless we can somehow raise our consciousness and capabilities to literal omnipotence, there will always be questions that are simply beyond our capability to prove, and some questions that will be beyond our capability to even theorize.

[kovidgoyal]

Don't want to nitpick but hearing test and prove in the same sentence hurts. You can't prove anything by testing. As a matter of fact you can't prove anything, period. But especially not by testing. You can prove things within an axiom structure, but even there there are statements that are unprovable.

The scientific method requires laws to be testable, i.e. dis-provable (is that even a word?) but no scientific laws are provable.

Indeed the situation is even worse. Man cannot correctly theorize answers to every question out there. A well know and truly ancient example of this is the self-referential paradox. The earliest know instance of which is due to the Greek philosopher Epimenedes. He said,
"Epimenedes, the Cretan, says that all Cretans are liars. Does he tell tell the truth?"

This was problem was shown to hold for any axiom system (i.e. any system of knowledge) by Godel, in his famous Incompleteness Theorem. So no we cannot answer every question, even theoretically.

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

That's true. However, scientific method requires the ability to test and prove hypotheses and theories to establish scientific laws and facts. Man may correctly theorize answers to absolutely every question out there, but I do not believe Man will ever have the ability to test and prove hypotheses, and therefore solve, absolutely every question out there. Those limitations will be based on the physical limitations of Man, something we have a limited ability to change.

Unless we can somehow raise our consciousness and capabilities to literal omnipotence, there will always be questions that are simply beyond our capability to prove, and some questions that will be beyond our capability to even theorize.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NatCh

"Repent, for the Great White Handkerchief is at hand," eh JSWolf?

That's just snot so.

I forgot to mention.. solid matter is just the dried up crusty snot you sometimes get when the wet snot sits in your nose and dries up.