Classic The nook is bad for eBooks - Page 2

clarknova · 12-16-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Because B&N has decided to have their own DRM for ePub, they are taking what was to be a standard format for eBooks with DRM and making it an absolute mess. We don't need or want this mess. And to be honest, all the people who have bought the nook or have one on order are helping B&N to make this mess. Everyone with a nook or an order for one needs to return the nook or cancel the order. Also tell B&N you won't have anything to do with them until they do away with social DRM on ePub. We need to hit B&N in the wallet in order to try to get rid of this new DRM. We don't need it, we don't want it and B&N needs to be told we won't stand for it. Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

Wait, so you're saying that DRM isn't bad, just the DRM that you can't remove? So in a few weeks when the DRM scheme has been reversed will the nook no longer be "bad for eBooks?"

I can't strip or convert Topaz books either, but to call the Kindle bad for eBooks would be ridiculous. The nook is fantastic for eBooks if for no other reason than providing competition to Amazon (which Sony seems to have never even attempted).

It seems to me that what's bad for eBooks are misleading marketing statements like, "it has ePub support, and ePub is more 'open,'" which are spouted by corporate flacks and users alike. B&N hasn't changed the format of ePub, they're following it just fine. They're just using a slightly new DRM format, which is supported by the ePub standard (see section 3.5.6 of the Open Container Format). ePub may have a publicly viewable standard, but it was still designed to allow for DRM (which many retailers have opted to use), and therein lies the problem.

DRM encumbered material (whether removable or not) is bad for all users -- it matters not the format nor the device. But saying the nook is bad for eBooks, when B&N is doing the exact same thing as Amazon and Sony, doesn't make sense.

netseeker · 12-16-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ema

Buying the nook does not mean supporting DRM; buying the DRM'ed content will mean supporting DRM. Buy the nook if you want it, but don't buy the DRM'ed books.

Yes, the title of this thread is disappointing, misleading and divisive. B&N's DRM'ed content seems to be the problem, not the nook!

esowden · 12-16-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Because B&N has decided to have their own DRM for ePub, they are taking what was to be a standard format for eBooks with DRM and making it an absolute mess. We don't need or want this mess. And to be honest, all the people who have bought the nook or have one on order are helping B&N to make this mess. Everyone with a nook or an order for one needs to return the nook or cancel the order. Also tell B&N you won't have anything to do with them until they do away with social DRM on ePub. We need to hit B&N in the wallet in order to try to get rid of this new DRM. We don't need it, we don't want it and B&N needs to be told we won't stand for it. Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

I guess all the Kindle owners need to trash their devices as well since Amazon isn't doing anything to advance ePub...

kennyc · 12-16-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulo

DRM is bad. period. doesn't matter who's doing it. Nobody will brain will pay almost the same price for ebook as they would pay for paper book when they know it will not work just few years from now due to DRM changes....

Yes. Jon you could say that same thing about Sony Reader or Kindle or any reader that uses DRM. Why single out the nook/B&N. They (and Adobe) are just taking the technology one more step and allowing it to be able to "share" even if that sharing is limited. I suspect all Adobe DRM implementers will move to this new version at some point.

What would be better is we fought against DRM as a whole by inundating the implementers, publishers, authors etc. with a campaign of protest and terror.

user_none · 12-16-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

We need to hit B&N in the wallet in order to try to get rid of this new DRM. We don't need it, we don't want it and B&N needs to be told we won't stand for it. Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

Denouncing competition and propping up a single broken system because your angry that you can't buy from B&N's ebook store is not a solution.

I happen to find the eReader DRM B&N is using for their EPUBs a much better system than what Adobe has been offering. What your suggesting is supporting a more restrictive DRM system that has more cumbersome requirements. The user first has to authorize their computer against a central server in order to authorize their device. If either the server is down or the user does not have an internet connection they will be unable to authorize their computer and will be locked out of reading the books they own. At least with B&N's system they just put in the unlock code (name + credit card number) and their reading.

Aobe's DRM has it's own problems and they aren't going to be solved by making it the only system available. Getting rid of DRM isn't a single step process. People will move to the system that meets their needs better. As they move to less restrictive systems eventually all of the restrictions will disappear.

Alpha_Cluster · 12-16-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esowden

I guess all the Kindle owners need to trash their devices as well since Amazon isn't doing anything to advance ePub...

But nobody using the Kindle believes they are advancing ePub. I also agree with the person starting this thread. B&N ePub is bad for ebooks. At least the extensions looked different between Amazons topaz and the lrx format. Now we have two completely different ePub formats both have the same extension and they are not a STANDARD DRM. The standard allows for DRM but the DRM is Adobes that is NOT a standard people.

And for those saying its no more confusing then different formats have you and all your friends been using a Mac for the last 10 years? Everyone I know (even ones that don't understand differing DRM schemes) at least know that a file ending in .epub will not work with the same stuff as a .lrx.

kennyc · 12-16-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha_Cluster

But nobody using the Kindle believes they are advancing ePub. I also agree with the person starting this thread. B&N ePub is bad for ebooks. At least the extensions looked different between Amazons topaz and the lrx format. Now we have two completely different ePub formats both have the same extension and they are not a STANDARD DRM. The standard allows for DRM but the DRM is Adobes that is NOT a standard people.

And for those saying its no more confusing then different formats have you and all your friends been using a Mac for the last 10 years? Everyone I know (even ones that don't understand differing DRM schemes) at least know that a file ending in .epub will not work with the same stuff as a .lrx.

This was already true. DRM <> EPUB. There are non-DRM epub and DRM-epubs already with the same file extension and no way to tell if it is drm'd or not.

WT Sharpe · 12-16-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

This was already true. DRM <> EPUB. There are non-DRM epub and DRM-epubs already with the same file extension and no way to tell if it is drm'd or not.

It would be nice to have a law that required all publications containing DRM to inform consumers up front.

kennyc · 12-16-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

It would be nice to have a law that required all publications containing DRM to inform consumers up front.

Or a law banning it.

esowden · 12-16-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha_Cluster

But nobody using the Kindle believes they are advancing ePub. I also agree with the person starting this thread. B&N ePub is bad for ebooks. At least the extensions looked different between Amazons topaz and the lrx format. Now we have two completely different ePub formats both have the same extension and they are not a STANDARD DRM. The standard allows for DRM but the DRM is Adobes that is NOT a standard people.

And for those saying its no more confusing then different formats have you and all your friends been using a Mac for the last 10 years? Everyone I know (even ones that don't understand differing DRM schemes) at least know that a file ending in .epub will not work with the same stuff as a .lrx.

My point is that limiting your protest to one type of DRM is both counter-productive and hypocritical. (B&N is bad for supporting DRM it but it's okay for Amazon because they use a different file type.)

You're missing the bigger picture. DRM is here to stay until artists (and by extension - their distributors) unite to do away with it. Their take is; as an artist - my product is my livelihood and if others are to profit from my efforts - I should profit as well. I must admit to siding with them on this. (Yes you can loan a book, DVD, CD, but (unless copied) there is still a certain amount of control in that it can only be read, seen or heard in one instance at a time and DRM is their effort to replicate that control.) Who on this board works for free? Don't get me wrong - it's a great concept but it doesn't pay the bills.

If B&N's DRM allows for sharing then I see it as an improvement over the current system.

TallMomof2 · 12-17-2009, 04:04 PM

The problem, as I see it, is that B&N like Amazon and Sony has introduced a new type of DRM. Sure it's ePub but the DRM is different. On the plus side, the Nook can read both forms of DRMed ePubs but right now the Nook is the only device that can read the new form of DRM.
Personally, I liberate all my ebooks, and will not even look at a Nook until the new DRM scheme is broken.

All4Fun · 12-17-2009, 04:56 PM

To summarize what I'm understanding: The Nook in itself as an ebook reader is not the problem and can read non-DRM ePubs. The issue seems to be the new ePub social DRM scheme being introduced by B&N which is similar in functionality to the DRM placed on eReader formats but can be confused with the current ADE ePub scheme used by Sony and others.

Buy the Nook if you want. If you don't like DRM, buy your ebooks from sources that sell DRM-free ebooks or that you can "liberate" the DRM from.

kennyc · 12-17-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

The problem, as I see it, is that B&N like Amazon and Sony has introduced a new type of DRM. Sure it's ePub but the DRM is different. On the plus side, the Nook can read both forms of DRMed ePubs but right now the Nook is the only device that can read the new form of DRM.
Personally, I liberate all my ebooks, and will not even look at a Nook until the new DRM scheme is broken.

Can it? Remind me, has someone been able to load and read a Sony/AdobeDE DRM epub on the Nook?

Madam Broshkina · 12-17-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Can it? Remind me, has someone been able to load and read a Sony/AdobeDE DRM epub on the Nook?

I can read the new Sony ePub books on my nook without having to remove the DRM. ePub books from B&N will not work on the Sony however.

All4Fun · 12-17-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam Broshkina

I can read the new Sony ePub books on my nook without having to remove the DRM. ePub books from B&N will not work on the Sony however.

So what makes the Nook so bad again?

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12-17-2009, 04:04 PM	#26
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	The problem, as I see it, is that B&N like Amazon and Sony has introduced a new type of DRM. Sure it's ePub but the DRM is different. On the plus side, the Nook can read both forms of DRMed ePubs but right now the Nook is the only device that can read the new form of DRM. Personally, I liberate all my ebooks, and will not even look at a Nook until the new DRM scheme is broken.

12-17-2009, 04:56 PM	#27
All4Fun Zealot Posts: 149 Karma: 937 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: iPad, Blackberry Bold	To summarize what I'm understanding: The Nook in itself as an ebook reader is not the problem and can read non-DRM ePubs. The issue seems to be the new ePub social DRM scheme being introduced by B&N which is similar in functionality to the DRM placed on eReader formats but can be confused with the current ADE ePub scheme used by Sony and others. Buy the Nook if you want. If you don't like DRM, buy your ebooks from sources that sell DRM-free ebooks or that you can "liberate" the DRM from.

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