There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Welcome to the world of editing -- the real world where editing is being outsourced to the cheapest provider regardless of ability, knowledge, or anything else. The decisions are being made by the bean counters. One former client of mine, a major publisher, told me that they are being pressured to stop paying for editorial services altogether because the savings would increase shareholder value. The bean counter rationale is that people don't see editorial problems until after they have already bought the book and actually started reading it, which usually occurs long after the return period. Consequently, editing is unnecessary.

And after the customer gets bitten a time of two with bad editing, they stop buying. Or they hold off buying until they can see a review that states if there is bad editing. I have a list over 20 books or so I won't buy, because of editing recommendations. Those are lost sales to the publisher.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by rhadin

the Internet has forced changes in the editing profession by making editing a global commodity and by "dumbing down" the general population so that readers increasingly either do not recognize or do not care whether the correct word is their or there.

While I'm sure you and all the editors who post here on MR are perfect and infallible, I assure you, I have many print books on my shelf from before the Internet was ever conceived that are rife with errors.

And I'm with Steven on the philosophy. It's one thing to make business decisions on the realities of piracy, it another to foment the idea that piracy is OK or justified for the ridiculously self-important reasons given.

Example: "I am not concerned with the piracy of my books because I don't feel that I'm losing that much money." That's a business decision.

"You should not be concerned about the piracy of your books because I don't think you are losing that much money." That's just a selfish attempt at justifying an illegal act, and it is likely to sway no one.

ApK

[CommonReader]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

So: Have your Lawless Wild Web. Just don't look for any new books from me on it.

Please don't take it as a personal attack but most people will probably live rather without your next book than with a heavily policed internet.
A certain amount of theft is normal for any business. Your local supermarket doesn't close down either, just because it loses some sales to shoplifting, does it?

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Tell ya what: Don't bother. There are plenty of pirate sites to download it from... be my guest. You (and everyone else who reads this) have my explicit blessing... go steal my books. I've thrown in the towel, as of today... no more books from me for the foreseeable future. I'm tired of fighting the pirates.

Pirates win.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Ultimately, it is my choice whether to accept being stolen from, or not. Faced with a world that clearly doesn't care if I'm being stolen from, since they can still get my work regardless... I choose not to accept it.

If I don't produce books... they can't be stolen. Problem solved.

Oh, my. The part about the world not caring is familiar, because there was a similar theme in the old thread where you seemed to insinuate that the majority of people are either pirates or pirates-waiting-to-happen.

But the part where you throw up your hands and surrender to the pirates is new. If it were almost anyone else, I would call it a flounce.

But you're not someone else - you're an author whose work I have just started reading recently, and I was enjoying it. I was becoming a fan. And so I'll say this as a fan:

This makes me feel like crap. The pirates have won, alright, because you put them first. All I hear is "I did want you wanted and you stole from me anyway." No, you did what we wanted and someone else stole from you anyway. Those people would have done so no matter what. But I wouldn't have. Not in a million years.

[NVash]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Bah.

My novels are available in multiple formats (plus an RTF to "roll your own"), at $2.99, No DRM, No geographical restrictions, meticulously edited and proofed, with quality covers, at multiple online bookselling outlets, including my own site.

Yesterday, I received yet another Google Alert of another site giving away my books for free... and not even a torrent site, but a site that pretends they have the right to sell books "free to members."

Say whatever you want; people are going to keep stealing ebooks, just because they farking can. And other consumers turn a blind eye, or egg them on, at their discretion.

Okay, Ill bite. Why didnt you go to that site? Check out how many people clicked on it? Is the link alive or dead? Things like that? How many 'Likes' or 'Digs' it could have received? Youre pitching a huge fit and for all you know no one is interested. Just because its there doesnt mean someone downloaded it.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I realize you weren't referring to me. But you're right: I am being stolen from regardless. I made the changes the market demanded, and am still being stolen from.

Tell ya what: Don't bother. There are plenty of pirate sites to download it from... be my guest. You (and everyone else who reads this) have my explicit blessing... go steal my books. I've thrown in the towel, as of today... no more books from me for the foreseeable future. I'm tired of fighting the pirates.

Pirates win.

Again, how do you know youre being stolen from? And besides that, why are you fighting a battle that may not have anything to do with you but is a losing battle anyway?

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Nope: I'm a 50-year-old man, tired of wasting my time, and you haven't seen drama.

Please dont take this wrong but I expect a 50-year old man to be a lot more mature about this. This almost sounds like a child pitching a hissy fit.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I am under the impression I'm losing money. But the amount is absolutely immaterial; the point is that no one cares enough to address an obvious wrong.

Ultimately, it is my choice whether to accept being stolen from, or not. Faced with a world that clearly doesn't care if I'm being stolen from, since they can still get my work regardless... I choose not to accept it.

If I don't produce books... they can't be stolen. Problem solved.

Thats just it. Youre UNDER THE IMPRESSION. To some people writing is all they ever wanted to do. Its their dream and they wont give it up without a fight. I dont think youre one of those people. Thats like actors saying 'Alright were done' because they saw someone selling their movies bootleg on the street. Never mind the fact that no one bought it. Its the fact that one guy, ONE GUY, had the audacity to do try to make a buck off something that wasnt his. This person, in your case, had it up for free so they made nothing but I think the point is still valid. Its almost as if you walked in expecting multimillions from the job, saw you arent getting it, saw a download link and immediately yelled 'PIRATES! THEY ARE TO BLAME! I QUIT'. Thats not good.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The publishers have the greatest tools with which to deal with piracy: Money and influence. They've simply been using those tools in the wrong way, to create DRM systems that don't work and copyright extensions that don't solve the problem.

Instead, publishers should be going to governments and telling them how their industry is being threatened by a lawless, out-of-control system. Then they should be doing what every other industry does that wants government action: Bribery of their leaders.

Ultimately, the structure of the Internet itself is to blame; it was simply never designed for a commerce-based system, as the ease of piracy ably demonstrates. The Web needs to be restructured to allow for an amount of workable security. This is something every government and industry with a web presence should understand and support, so at least they wouldn't be alone in this.

Well agree to disagree. Publishers cant do a thing I dont think. They can do whatever they want but people will still pirate. Look at the music industry. Arent they still complaining about piracy? Look at the movie industry. I see people selling bootleg DVDs everyday.

And I think youre being a little over dramatic about this.

I dont understand. Im not going to walk in here and pretend Im knowledgeable. I dont know much of anything when it comes to the professional world but I do know about pirates. I do know this topic is the proverbial dead horse and man does it take a beating. My main point is this. I dont think pirating can be stopped. Honestly, it cant. People will find ways to do it no matter the outcome. However for the publishers, they need to put that money and time that they could use to stop pirating into chocking out a good product. If I buy one more Kindle book with crappy editing I might just scream. Books cost too much for that kind of mess. Now in your case Mr. Steven, I realize youre giving a good product at a good price. The problem is that you think that just because your book is up for download somewhere youre losing money. Theres a few problems with that. Another thing that might sound harsh but this isnt meant to be an insult. Sir, you arent well known. Before this thread I had no idea who you were. You arent Stephen King. If you were he, Id say the same thing but at least youd have a legitimate argument. Youre complaining because you got a note that someone put your book up for download. Fair enough. But I doubt you checked it out. I doubt many people downloaded it. And if they did, free publicity, because again, you arent well known. Some may just pirate to be jerks getting free books. Some may have genuine interest in you and pirate it then go back and buy your books. They are cheap after all. $3 isnt much. Who knows? Giving up does nothing for you honestly. You think youre losing sales now? Im pretty sure youll lose more just giving up because 'some' people may have downloaded your book. And take a look at all the people in this very thread that are talking of purchasing your book. Those could be sales later on down the road. Those could be sales tonight. Those people could like you and buy your next books the minute they come out. I dont know sir, I just think youre jumping the gun here and might want to sit down for a moment and reconsider. Or you could take up painting, thats good too.

[Hellmark]

The big thing is, some people will NEVER buy a product. If it isn't available to steal, they'll just do without. When someone like Steven Lyle Jordan stops producing because they are fed up with the pirates, it does not effect the pirates. It only hurts the fans who enjoyed the product and paid for it, and want to pay for more.

[Sydney's Mom]

I notice the library now uses a new symbol for ebooks - it has a padlock on it. It's starting!

[boxcorner]

Some people write to earn money, while others write because they want to be read. If piracy hurts the former, perhaps it helps the latter (ie of course, those who manage to get their works published).

Originally Posted by Hellmark

The big thing is, some people will NEVER buy a product. If it isn't available to steal, they'll just do without ...

Then there are people like me who choose not to buy or steal, and prefer to do without. There are more than enough free e-books available to keep me happy for the foreseeable future. I would never spend money on a book that has DRM. I expect to be able to keep any book that I buy. There are plenty of DRM-free books available, should I ever feel the need to spend any money.

[NVash]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Some people write to earn money, while others write because they want to be read. If piracy hurts the former, perhaps it helps the latter (ie of course, those who manage to get their works published).

I thought it was well known that most people who go into something like writing dont make it big and barely scrape by. I have no figures for this, I heard it somewhere and it made alot of sense. Youd have to atleast scrape by until you develop a large fan base right?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

You guys are digging way too deep into this. It's simple: I write to make money, and I'm not making any money... in fact, I'm losing money by the shovelful. Writing was a failed experiment in making a second income. So, I'm gonna stop.

And yeah, I do happen to think that piracy is adversely affecting the industry... one more thing preventing my making money. I'm not going to debate how much... we should all realize by now that that debate is going nowhere.

Yeah, it's frustrating... and not just for you. It's frustrating for me on multiple levels, because I also like to write; but I don't have time for such a time- and energy-consuming hobby that frustrates me, and doesn't do what I need it to do. And I'd also like to be a part of finding a solution that satisfies me, and gives me a good reason to write... but as the Gods are my witnesses, I don't see one, and haven't heard one from anyone else.

I took a few good ones for the team; now I'm too beat up to play anymore. Put someone else in, coach.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

I notice the library now uses a new symbol for ebooks - it has a padlock on it. It's starting!

What Library??

[carld]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Ah.. So you just decided that because all those books are on the darknet a significant number of us *must* be taking them. Thanks...

Again, that's not what I said.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by NVash

I thought it was well known that most people who go into something like writing dont make it big and barely scrape by. I have no figures for this, I heard it somewhere and it made alot of sense. Youd have to atleast scrape by until you develop a large fan base right?

Do artists create for the sake of art, or the material rewards their work might bring? If they are writing just to earn money, then clearly piracy comes with the territory.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Quexos

Its ok, it's all for the sake of debating
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. How can not buying and downloading it not be related ? in both instances no money goes to the author. So if money is the issue here, the two instances are very much related methinks.

Because not buying a book is a choice, downloading someone else's work off the internet is stealing, two very different and completely unrelated things.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

I notice the library now uses a new symbol for ebooks - it has a padlock on it. It's starting!

What has started is some of the ebooks offered through Overdrive are now DRM free and they decided a way was needed to distinguish DRM from non-DRM.