A Heads up re B&H Photo Video for non U.S. buyers

[astra]

Originally Posted by columbus

I will mail henry as you suggest, but I shall not hold my breath for a reply form a public email address.

And no I am not just looking to Bitch as you put it I am $25 out of pocket and offended by this through no fault of my own. (or the card provider).

I really hope they resolve the issue. Until now, I have heard only very good opinions about them.
Good luck!

[bandhphoto]

Originally Posted by columbus

This is not intended to be a B&H bashing post, but to highlight how their business practices can financially disadvantage non US customers.

We regret this unfortunate situation and the distress it has caused you. Under separate cover I am sending you a $25.00 B&H gift card which you can use for any future purchase here. I appreciate this is not the same as a refund but it is the very best I can do and I hope will be received in the spirit of reconciliation with which it is being sent.

In order to deter credit card fraud and identity theft we have verification processes in place. For non-US customers we will ship to the customer's home or to a business address only if it's in the same country as the home or to a USA residence address. In addition, the credit card must have been issued in the same country as the residence. That was not the case here. Wire Transfer would have been an option.

Originally Posted by astra

Since it is their fault (isn't it? there is no rule that billing and posting addresses must be the same?), they should refund the loss.
I bought both of my sony readers from them and both times they where excellent.

I am glad to know your purchase here was satisfactory. In fact there is a rule that billing and shipping must match.

Originally Posted by rhadin

Your customer service response is a typical B&H response. Its attitude has been for quite some time that they have enough business and don't need mine.
When I worked in New York City I would occasionally go into their store. You could do cartwheels and handsprings and still be ignored.

I hope my reply here is an indication that you are mistaken about our attitude. Our store sales associates generally are not the pushy commission-only types who hound customers with "Can I assist you?" inquiries constantly. We don't pay commissions and we expect our sales associates to be polite, informative and available but not aggressive.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

They are correct in that the discrepancies in exchange rates are not B&H's fault, nor did they profit from it. It's your credit card issuer's fault, and they are the ones who are charging you.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by columbus

The fact that the card is from a British bank has nothing to do with it...I think B&H charge your card in full & then (according to their t&c) take a week to refund you so they have free use of your cash.

The fact that your card and your home are from different countries had everything to do with it. B&H has no use of your cash once we've initiated the refund. US UCC regulations permit banks considerably more time to route refunds than they take to place charges. I do not know why this is so, but it is. We processed your refund immediately and from then until your bank confirms the funds have been restored to your account there is nothing we can do to speed the process.

I don't think anybody will send goods of any value these days to an address different to the card billing, even within the same country.

We will. We will ship to your job if it is a different address in the same country but the credit card must be from the same country as well.

Originally Posted by Fbone

B&H is not permitted to bill you for goods before shipping.

I am afraid you are mistaken.

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Henry is a FANTASTIC guy and very sincere in making sure things get fixed when confusion happens. I have spent $1000s with B&H and friends have spend 10x-20x that with them and, sure things go wrong but B&H is one of the most ethical companies I have ever dealt with and I am as fussy as can be in retailers and mfg's standing behind their products and services.

WOW! Thank you. This is very gratifying.

Originally Posted by columbus

I will mail henry as you suggest, but I shall not hold my breath for a reply form a public email address.

Woe unto ye of little faith. I appreciate you're upset but don't you think I deserve the benefit of the doubt until I actually blow you off?

Originally Posted by astra

I really hope they resolve the issue. Until now, I have heard only very good opinions about them.

Thank you.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[vaughnmr]

I'm going to have to chime in here also, there have been several people post negative comments about B&H Photo in this thread. My experience is only with the photo side, and I think a lot of the pros in this business will agree: they are one of the best out there. If you had a problem, I would bet anything it wasn't caused by them. Photography people around the world trust B&H Photo as one of the most reliable vendors in the business.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

We regret this unfortunate situation and the distress it has caused you. Under separate cover I am sending you a $25.00 B&H gift card which you can use for any future purchase here. I appreciate this is not the same as a refund but it is the very best I can do and I hope will be received in the spirit of reconciliation with which it is being sent.

Ok fair enough as & when it arrives I will come back to this thread to confirm so. I would not have posted this had I had a more satisfactory response from you in the first place.

In order to deter credit card fraud and identity theft we have verification processes in place. For non-US customers we will ship to the customer's home or to a business address only if it's in the same country as the home or to a USA residence address. In addition, the credit card must have been issued in the same country as the residence. That was not the case here. Wire Transfer would have been an option.

I fully appreciate your concern with the possibility of fraud.

Once I have the gift card, that has effectively confirmed my address. Presumably you will then accept my legitimate credit card, otherwise the gift card is of no use whatsoever.

Wire transfer gives me no consumer protection against loss, damage or in the event of you going out of business before despatching the goods. Unlikely maybe but in this day and age who knows.

The fact that your card and your home are from different countries had everything to do with it. B&H has no use of your cash once we've initiated the refund. US UCC regulations permit banks considerably more time to route refunds than they take to place charges. I do not know why this is so, but it is. We processed your refund immediately and from then until your bank confirms the funds have been restored to your account there is nothing we can do to speed the process.

We will. We will ship to your job if it is a different address in the same country but the credit card must be from the same country as well.

I don't have a Spanish credit card as I told Simon. I don't need one other than it seems to buy from you.

Enshrined in the European constitution is the right of free movement of its citizens both physically and financially.
It is the norm to live in one member state with finances in another. Hence as all my finances originate from the UK in £Sterling I have a UK sterling credit card.
So to satisfy you I would have to transfer £Sterling into €Euros then $Dollars and then pay the fees for a Spanish credit card I never use.

I've never had this problem from any supplier anywhere else in the world

Woe unto ye of little faith. I appreciate you're upset but don't you think I deserve the benefit of the doubt until I actually blow you off?

Well, Vamos a ver.

All's well that ends well!

[bandhphoto]

Originally Posted by columbus

Ok fair enough as & when it arrives I will come back to this thread to confirm so. I would not have posted this had I had a more satisfactory response from you in the first place.

Entirely understandable

I fully appreciate your concern with the possibility of fraud.

Thank you.

Once I have the gift card, that has effectively confirmed my address. Presumably you will then accept my legitimate credit card, otherwise the gift card is of no use whatsoever.

As of this moment, no. The credit card must originate in the same country as your residence. That said, we've recently begun a new initiative to ease transactions for our non-USA customers. The person heading that initiative and I have an excellent rapport and he's been brought up to speed on your situation and the ramifications for all our customers, particularly those of the EU.

It is the norm to live in one member state with finances in another

I cannot dispute that but I do know this is the first time I've been confronted with this situation. While I am not privy to every customer's transactions it's likely I'd have heard about this from others in your situation before now if this was a frequently occurring difficulty.

That said, we appreciate the world is changing in many ways and we have to be able to accomplish dual, often seemingly contrary, tasks. Among those are easing the path for you to shop here while simultaneously continuing to deter credit card fraud and identity theft to the best of our abilities.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[Fbone]

Perhaps, B&H can update the additional credit card requirement for international orders to their payment page to prevent further misunderstandings.
Currently it says: "We accept Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover. Bank regulations require that the billing address of the order match the billing address associated with your credit card."

No mention the credit card has to be issued in the same country as billing address.

Thanks for your timely posts.

[gollu]

I've previously heard only good reviews for B&H and know of a number of people who consider it one of NY's attraction sites. As it seems - they do have good customer support too.
It will be nice if some of the early "bashers" comment on the topic now.

[nohmi2]

My hubby has been buying from B & H for years now, and as he is a good customer they have sent him catalogues which must cost a small fortune to print. Quite frankly, they are one of the most reliable of the US companies to do business with.

The chatroom of DPreview.com is also aided by B & H which my hubby is a member of.

Cheers.

[rhadin]

My experiences with B&H occurred years ago. I will grant that it could be vastly improved since then, but once I get burned by an outfit, I never go back. Once burned, twice shy.

As for the greatness of their photo division, years ago I tried to order 2 cameras from B&H. I gave the salesperson my credit card information and was told the items would ship the next day. Never shipped and was never billed. When I inquired, they had no record. The problem was, I believe, that all I wanted was the 2 cameras, none of the other peripheral items the salesman was trying to push.

As I said earlier, perhaps things have changed, but I'm not willing to find out when I can buy elsewhere.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

As of this moment, no. The credit card must originate in the same country as your residence.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

A pity this was not stated in your terms and conditions at the time of order! If it had been I would not have ordered from you.

All it said regarding International orders was that the card billing and the delivery address must be the same which they were / are.

So as I said, your gift certificate if you send it, is of no value to me, unless I can find something I want for $25 or less including shipping.

So I'm still out of pocket.

[bandhphoto]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Perhaps, B&H can update the additional credit card requirement for international orders to their payment page to prevent further misunderstandings.

I've already submitted a web update request for this and expect to see it during October, when we return from our impending hiatus.

Originally Posted by rhadin

...years ago I tried to order 2 cameras from B&H. I gave the salesperson my credit card information and was told the items would ship the next day. Never shipped and was never billed. When I inquired, they had no record. The problem was, I believe, that all I wanted was the 2 cameras, none of the other peripheral items the salesman was trying to push.

I regret your dissatisfaction but there is no basis for this unfounded and undeserved suspicion. B&H has never paid our sales associates commissions and we have never run high-sales volume or high-dollar sales contests. We do this specifically because we do not want our sales associates to consider AT ALL whether or not your order includes "other peripheral items." We also want our sales associates to make suggestions and recommendations based on what seems best for each individual customer's shopping priorities, not for the sales associate's pay envelope.

Originally Posted by columbus

So as I said, your gift certificate if you send it, is of no value to me, unless I can find something I want for $25 or less including shipping.

"If?" Of course we sent it. I see the post office package tracking number in our transaction database and you should have received (or soon will) confirming e-mail from us. As I said earlier, we are sorry for this unfortunate situation.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by rhadin

My experiences with B&H occurred years ago. I will grant that it could be vastly improved since then, but once I get burned by an outfit, I never go back. Once burned, twice shy.

As for the greatness of their photo division, years ago I tried to order 2 cameras from B&H. I gave the salesperson my credit card information and was told the items would ship the next day. Never shipped and was never billed. When I inquired, they had no record. The problem was, I believe, that all I wanted was the 2 cameras, none of the other peripheral items the salesman was trying to push.

As I said earlier, perhaps things have changed, but I'm not willing to find out when I can buy elsewhere.

I've never had that experience from B&H. Are you sure you're not confused with some other vendor... There are some rather unsavory camera vendors in NY that make pressure sales tactics a part of their sales, but B&H is not one of them.

[brecklundin]

vaughnmr:

Actually, like all companies who were moving into the web as a point of sale, B&H had their hiccups early on so I am sure there are people who are gun shy.

I know there are other sellers of camera gear who today are far better regarded than how I persoanlly would rate them, but I won't buy from them for the same reasons as rhadin. There are a couple I tried again after a while but did so via a 3rd party marketplace like eBay or Amazon with great results. I found the security net of a 3rd party venue made me feel better than just a credit card. Now I order directly from them if I find items on sale I can afford or have been wanting.

But I have been buying mail order for AGES...my first programmable HP calculators (HP-25 then an HP-67...still have the 67 somewhere ) were bought via mail-order when I was a teen. Back then it was send a check/MO and wait 6-8 weeks as a rule. And I never had problems. For the life of me I don't remember the company but I do know they are still in business because when I see their ads in the back of photo mags the name pops back into my head.

rhadin's problem was obviously early on in the B&H move to online sales. Back then there was a common practice by some salespersons to "upsell" everything. They did this even is the company had policies to not do this...it took time to develop solid customer oriented sales SOP's for online/phone orders which don't put on the pressure to upsell because retailers learn that the web has lots of competition and better to sell less to a customer today but make them very happy so tomorrow they will keep coming back. I give companies like B&H (Adorama is also very good as well...sorry Henry but gotta be fair...d'oh!!) but I give these companies credit for improving the process and making it far less intimidating for the consumer who is reluctant to buy from the stereo-type "NY Camera & Electronics Store" with pushy sales folks and constant upselling. Today that siimply is not the case. I really do say to ANYONE who ever bought from B&H but might have had a problem to try something small someday and you will be pleasantly surprised. I really am picky about companies I stand behind but B&H is one of those companies.

Still it's perfectly understandable if a bad experience in the past puts a person off a company. The thing to remember is the world and markets have changed since then and today is a totally different approach to online/mail-order/phone-order selling because of all the options people have. So the real difference maker is the personal contact with the company which, in this case, will be the sales staff for the most part. I mean look how once Henry was contacted he was here to fix the issue which turned out to be a first time thing and will be addressed...as many here like to say, things go wrong so it comes down to how a company handles it when those things happen.

So, sure I have no problem believing that rhadin had a bad experience in the past. That was likely early on as the company moved into the web and things were just, well, different. Remember in-store in NYC it was just part of "the game" to upsell the customer and people were fine with just dealing with it...it was part of the fun that makes NYC, well, NYC. Still as with all things, businesses who want to be successful change and adapt....today it's a different ballgame and B&H might well be the best of the best sellings of electronics online. And no I don't buy just from them but they are my first choice when I am shopping for a treat or needed gear.

Still, everyone screws up...it's how they handle the screw-ups that makes the difference. And one bad sales person can have a long term effect on a the image someone has of a company...but should one bad experience color your opinion forever? Probably not but it can for any of us.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

"If?" Of course we sent it. I see the post office package tracking number in our transaction database and you should have received (or soon will) confirming e-mail from us. As I said earlier, we are sorry for this unfortunate situation.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Yes, thank you.

The *Shipped* email appeared in my inbox timed after my last post and a little before yours, marked *Shipped as first class letter (GC)*, to the billing address I gave you for my card.

First class letter post US to here takes 3-5 days normally. I'll post here when it arrives.

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Still, everyone screws up...it's how they handle the screw-ups that makes the difference. And one bad sales person can have a long term effect on a the image someone has of a company...but should one bad experience color your opinion forever? Probably not but it can for any of us.

Oh so very true!

It takes a long, long time to develop a good reputation and so very little to loose it.

[HarryT]

I would agree that B&H should perhaps consider revising this policy. As the original poster stated, there is complete freedom of movement and residence within the EU, and it is extremely common for, say, a British person to live in Spain, or a Polish person in the UK. It's really not fair at all to impose this restriction.