Harry Potter and the Death of Reading - Page 2

JSWolf · 07-18-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

btw. the book has now been leaked completely
http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/ne...559825094.html

I've managed to get those pictures too, but I think i'll just skip it for now and really make use of my reader when it's out.

The photos are out there and there is a pretty good formatted PDF of chapters 1-10 that match the photos. I am going to eventually get the book. I'm still working on #6.

JSWolf · 07-18-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

My old definition of "classic" was "something that keeps coming back, no matter how bad it is" -- I believe I was thinking mainly of Hemingway, who definitely fits the psychotic, postwar and depressed, though others may disagree on the boring. There's no accounting for taste, after all.

Because of school, I got the impression that if something was a classic, it was old, boring, and not something I'd want to read. So i stayed away from anything labeled a classic because of that. Of course, I also stayed away from school suggested reading lists as well.

Cthulhu · 07-18-2007, 10:19 AM

When I was in high school, we had "suggest summer reading" lists. Things that the school or teachers thought were important works, but not important enough to actually teach. I read most of them, and can still not tell why The Red Pony was a good read.

It was not until university that I actually got how/why some of these works were so important. Maybe the young mind simply is not so well-geared to literature. When I learned of what a firebrand Milton was, reading Paradise Lost the second time (it was assigned in HS), it was a great read. Satan as James Dean or Marlon Brando, god, as Ward Cleaver!

I think that it is not so much the texts themselves so much as it is the way they are presented. Maybe there is too much of the author's backstory/motivation that cannot be discussed with younger readers, and that really informs a person's view of a text.

Also, I find it amusing that Homer's works are classics, just as Miller's Tropic of Cancer is. Let the sophomores read *that*, and there would definitely be renewed interest in Classics! ;-

Leaping Gnome · 07-18-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

There is this rule in the education system here that force highschoolers to read 25 literature books (in the country's language of course) in order to graduate. And those books that are listed as literature are mostly boring psychotic postwar books written by depressed authors.

Where is "here"? (Hint: fill in your location in your profile!)

NatCh · 07-18-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Maybe the young mind simply is not so well-geared to literature.

I've been told (not my field, but it matches my experiences) that the typical brain doesn't really get to the point of being able to really process abstract ideas until sometime in the low to mid twenties, so that's probably part of it, but I also think that there's more to it. I don't think that young minds usually have enough information and experience to make the connections to other things that make good literature so enjoyable.

But the problem is that they have to get that experience and data, in order to appreciate the experience and data. They usually won't enjoy the initial exposure, but it's got to be had if they're ever going to get any further, which is why I think it's a better approach to focus on ways to ease the trauma (that's too strong a word, but it's the right idea) of the initial exposures, rather than tossing the 'classics' (the real ones that is)

nekokami · 07-18-2007, 01:15 PM

I think the lack of experience is a big part of the problem, but I've seen that at least partially overcome with good presentation by a teacher who has a lot of imagination and understands kids. I guess I'm lucky in that I've met a lot of good teachers.

JSWolf · 07-18-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

I think the lack of experience is a big part of the problem, but I've seen that at least partially overcome with good presentation by a teacher who has a lot of imagination and understands kids. I guess I'm lucky in that I've met a lot of good teachers.

I have something better... parents who encouraged me to read. That's what did it for me. I didn't have to rely on some teacher to get me into reading. Because back then, if I had to rely on teachers, I'd not be a reader today. Most of the teachers who taught could not keep me interested in the books they foisted on us. Back then, I saw no reason to meemorize dead English.

To Be of Not to Be that is the question. And the answer is not to be because we don't need this nonsense.

nekokami · 07-18-2007, 04:44 PM

My parents encouraged me to read, and I have been encouraging my kids to read. (It probably helps that they see us reading a lot, too.) I'm not in any way saying that parents encouraging kids to read isn't important; in fact, one of the strongest predictors of any academic success is parents reading to kids. All I'm saying is that good teachers can also help. Perhaps I've generally had a more positive relationship with my teachers than you have had, though.

NatCh · 07-18-2007, 05:10 PM

some of my earliest memories are of my mother reading to me. I suppose that's still lurking in my mental background when I'm reading now.

I think my teachers were probably more typical, I think they mostly wanted to help me view reading positively, but the methods they used weren't all that effective. Of course, it may simply have been that I'm annoyed by other people telling me that I have to read this or that. Coupled with the over-commented upon (by me!), ill-timed exposure to Lord of the Flies ... I think I just decided that I hated everything they told me I had to read. Looking back, however, there were a few of them that weren't too bad.

sea2stars · 07-18-2007, 05:53 PM

Yeah. Teachers can only do so much to encourage reading. How many high school or college teachers do you remember being excited about the books they were requiring their students to read? I remember one. A British Lit teacher in high school who let small groups pick our their own reading material. It was nice to be required to read, but not required to read a specific book.

Nekokami what's your favorite Harlan Ellison short story? I've met him a few times and he's an amazing character.

nekokami · 07-18-2007, 08:30 PM

Er... that's the one, actually. "Repent Harlequin...." I've never met him personally, and I haven't, to be honest, read widely of his work. I liked that one, though. It was in a volume of Hugo winners, if I recall correctly. I've forgotten which one.

I can't say all my teachers were wonderful, but I remember a number of them fondly. I was a pretty introverted kid, and I often got along better with my teachers than with the other students.

sea2stars · 07-19-2007, 12:14 AM

Paladin of the Lost Hour would have to be one of my favorites.

The GreatGonzo · 07-20-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sea2stars

Paladin of the Lost Hour would have to be one of my favorites.

What about "The Deathbird" and "Jeffty is Five"?

BTW, a lot of Harlan's stuff is available over at Fictionwise ... for those who are curious....

slayda · 07-20-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So what scools are doing is forcing kids to read books they don't enjoy.

I thought that was what "literature" was all about!

lumi · 07-21-2007, 01:57 AM

I was always encouraged by my parents to read, and have been an avid reader since I was 4. The school presentation of "classics", however, turned me off of those books for a very long time. I've only recently rediscovered them, mostly through the uploads here (which led me to PG), and find many of those books are much more enjoyable now that I don't have to analyze them! I do think the way literature is taught in our schools is somewhat counterproductive, if the goal is to get kids to read. Even in middle school, it seems to be more about dissecting a text than appreciating it. Not every student is going to become a lit major in college, after all.

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07-18-2007, 10:19 AM	#18
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	When I was in high school, we had "suggest summer reading" lists. Things that the school or teachers thought were important works, but not important enough to actually teach. I read most of them, and can still not tell why The Red Pony was a good read. It was not until university that I actually got how/why some of these works were so important. Maybe the young mind simply is not so well-geared to literature. When I learned of what a firebrand Milton was, reading Paradise Lost the second time (it was assigned in HS), it was a great read. Satan as James Dean or Marlon Brando, god, as Ward Cleaver! I think that it is not so much the texts themselves so much as it is the way they are presented. Maybe there is too much of the author's backstory/motivation that cannot be discussed with younger readers, and that really informs a person's view of a text. Also, I find it amusing that Homer's works are classics, just as Miller's Tropic of Cancer is. Let the sophomores read that, and there would definitely be renewed interest in Classics! ;-

07-18-2007, 01:15 PM	#21
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	I think the lack of experience is a big part of the problem, but I've seen that at least partially overcome with good presentation by a teacher who has a lot of imagination and understands kids. I guess I'm lucky in that I've met a lot of good teachers.

07-18-2007, 04:44 PM	#23
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	My parents encouraged me to read, and I have been encouraging my kids to read. (It probably helps that they see us reading a lot, too.) I'm not in any way saying that parents encouraging kids to read isn't important; in fact, one of the strongest predictors of any academic success is parents reading to kids. All I'm saying is that good teachers can also help. Perhaps I've generally had a more positive relationship with my teachers than you have had, though.

07-18-2007, 05:10 PM	#24
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	some of my earliest memories are of my mother reading to me. I suppose that's still lurking in my mental background when I'm reading now. I think my teachers were probably more typical, I think they mostly wanted to help me view reading positively, but the methods they used weren't all that effective. Of course, it may simply have been that I'm annoyed by other people telling me that I have to read this or that. Coupled with the over-commented upon (by me!), ill-timed exposure to Lord of the Flies ... I think I just decided that I hated everything they told me I had to read. Looking back, however, there were a few of them that weren't too bad.

07-18-2007, 05:53 PM	#25
sea2stars Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 64 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: eb1150, Sony Reader	Yeah. Teachers can only do so much to encourage reading. How many high school or college teachers do you remember being excited about the books they were requiring their students to read? I remember one. A British Lit teacher in high school who let small groups pick our their own reading material. It was nice to be required to read, but not required to read a specific book. Nekokami what's your favorite Harlan Ellison short story? I've met him a few times and he's an amazing character.

07-18-2007, 08:30 PM	#26
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Er... that's the one, actually. "Repent Harlequin...." I've never met him personally, and I haven't, to be honest, read widely of his work. I liked that one, though. It was in a volume of Hugo winners, if I recall correctly. I've forgotten which one. I can't say all my teachers were wonderful, but I remember a number of them fondly. I was a pretty introverted kid, and I often got along better with my teachers than with the other students.

07-19-2007, 12:14 AM	#27
sea2stars Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 64 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: eb1150, Sony Reader	Paladin of the Lost Hour would have to be one of my favorites.

07-21-2007, 01:57 AM	#30
lumi Member Posts: 19 Karma: 46 Join Date: Jan 2007 Device: Sony Reader	I was always encouraged by my parents to read, and have been an avid reader since I was 4. The school presentation of "classics", however, turned me off of those books for a very long time. I've only recently rediscovered them, mostly through the uploads here (which led me to PG), and find many of those books are much more enjoyable now that I don't have to analyze them! I do think the way literature is taught in our schools is somewhat counterproductive, if the goal is to get kids to read. Even in middle school, it seems to be more about dissecting a text than appreciating it. Not every student is going to become a lit major in college, after all.

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