07-14-2013, 03:17 PM | #31 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 91
Karma: 2129612
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
Device: Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, Sony PRS 505, Sony PRS T2, Kindle PW
|
Quote:
See the map here (the data is "blurred", so not as exact as it really is in order to protect the person's privacy): http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-vorratsdaten (EDIT: This URL leads to one of Germay's leading and most respected weekly magazines, so it's as safe as anything to click on] You can make very educated guesses about who's a friend, who's a co-worker, who's a romantic partner and who someone is having an affair with just by looking at the call times and lengths without needing to actually listen to the calls. It's easier than you would suspect. Add to that mail & Facebook correspondence (who, when, where & even what), the Amazon purchase history, your Google searches and your entire web browsing history (as stored by Facebook and now Amazon) and you'll know more about a person than even their spouse does. So, no, it's not likely that this data will be useless. I used to think that too until I've worked with a team who did data warehousing and analysis for a big company. They could guess gender, sexual orientation, age group, income group and even place of living based on purchase history with a shocking degree of accuracy (well over 95%) where non of this data was provided by the customer. Matt |
|
07-14-2013, 11:52 PM | #32 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,806
Karma: 13399999
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: US
Device: Nook Simple Touch, Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Clara HD, Kindle 4
|
Quote:
|
|
07-15-2013, 08:29 AM | #33 | |||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
Quote:
From Forbes: Quote:
Quote:
Seems *everybody* is doing it to everybody in the virtual village. Here, the NYT original: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/ma...anted=all&_r=0 In the olden days, when we lived in villages and were lucky to hit 40, everybody knew everybody's business. When people speak of the internet as a global village it is no metaphor. (Privacy via anonymity is a recent invention dating back to the mega-cities of the 20th.) Last edited by fjtorres; 07-15-2013 at 08:37 AM. |
|||
07-15-2013, 10:21 AM | #34 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 91
Karma: 2129612
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
Device: Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, Sony PRS 505, Sony PRS T2, Kindle PW
|
Quote:
Those in power need to be held accountable and in check. That's a very simple, very important truth that citizens of the US claim to hold dear. If you want to know why, read 1984, Animal Farm or any history book about a dictatorship. Right now, we let our governments and corporations get away with this, because we think it doesn't really affect us and because people just don't know how pervasive and effective data mining has become. "It's just Amazon/Facebook/Google," we say, "I don't have a problem with a bit of targeted advertising." You guys in the US have a fourth amendment and your (snail) mail is safe from prying eyes, but the rules for new forms of communications have not yet been established and you're letting your government get away with stuff that would make some of the great men and women in your country's history turn over in their graves (not that we Europeans are any better). If Google asked you about your sexual history and fantasies, the state of your marriage and your finances and would like to get a list of your friends and how often you talk to them before it allows you to use its services, you'd probably get angry. But then, that's exactly what Google most likely knows about you anyway (or could know about you, if they wanted and analyzed your data). Then, let's say that one of your former college roomates gets swept up in a terrorism investigation by accident (he knows a foreign exchange student who traveled to Pakistan, or whatever) and because you've talked to him on the phone regarding a reunion, all this info is handed over and processed by the government. And suddenly that book you bought about the hunt for Bin Laden seems a lot more sinister. And then you're on a no-fly-list[1] and nobody will tell you why and you'll probably get a mention in a salon.com article, but the rest of the world will go on thinking everything's alright, because they're not doing anything wrong and have got nothing to hide. Checks and balances aren't there for your average reasonable government, they're there for the day when the government tries something outrageous, so that there's someone who can stand up and say "That's not how we do things round here." and not be silenced. And when this has finally been accepted as a fact of life and the way that the world works, what chances do people in China, Russia, Egypt, North Korea or Iran have when they're hunted by their own government? Sorry for the rant. It's just a bit weird to me how people keep shrugging this off as "that's how the internet is". If it indeed is that way, isn't it high time we changed it? Matt [1] Think I'm joking or exaggerating? I'm not. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...he-fbi/257316/ |
|
07-15-2013, 10:28 AM | #35 |
eBook Enthusiast
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
|
Moderator Notice
Please take the politics to the "Politics and Religion" forum. Any further post with political content will be deleted without notice. Thank you. |
07-15-2013, 10:39 AM | #36 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,468
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
I always find it amusing whenever someone seems to think they have a firm and completely objective grasp on what things should make everyone "uneasy."
|
07-15-2013, 10:44 AM | #37 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 91
Karma: 2129612
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
Device: Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, Sony PRS 505, Sony PRS T2, Kindle PW
|
Quote:
I neither think it's completely objective nor do I need you to feel uneasy about anything you're not uneasy about. I just thought it's a worthwile topic of discussion. Maybe I'm wrong. Matt |
|
07-15-2013, 12:46 PM | #38 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,388
Karma: 14190103
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berlin
Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx
|
I personally find it a worthwile and important topic, thanks for opening this thread!
|
07-15-2013, 12:48 PM | #39 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
There is no objectivity possible when discussing emotional triggers.
One person's "deeply offensive" is the next person's shrug. Me, I am under no delusion of having any specific importance to either government or big business--plus, having held security clearance I know the government already knows everything of relevance about me--so I'm more concerned about private criminals than public scoundrels. And more about price-fixers than over-eager sales staff, online or off. To each their own. |
07-15-2013, 03:30 PM | #40 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,465
Karma: 6900052
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Heart of Texas
Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,
|
Rather than being upset that intelligence gathering agencies gather intelligence, we might be better focused on insuring that there are measures in place to detect when or if any of the data gathered is misused. As far as I know, none of the recent "exposures"
has included any evidence that some misuse of the data has actually taken place. If you then say "but I know they must be misusing the data and keeping it secret", then your efforts should be directed at more oversight and strict enforcement for those misusing the intelligence data in some unauthorized, and/or non-intelligence way. Exposing and prosecuting those who misuse or allow the misuse of intelligence data is only a national security problem to the extent that it exposes the details of the intelligence program that was abused. Just exposing the existence of a program can damage or eliminate its effectiveness. Going after the misusers/abusers and holding them accountable for their actions, should be our objective not some outrage over the existence of the intelligence gathering operation. We should not be calling for the elimination of such programs, but rather for very strict enforcement of harsh penalties for any misuse/abuse. Luck; Ken EX ASA Analyst |
07-15-2013, 03:35 PM | #41 | |
Interested Bystander
Posts: 3,725
Karma: 19728152
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
|
Quote:
|
|
07-15-2013, 04:10 PM | #42 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,465
Karma: 6900052
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Heart of Texas
Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,
|
Quote:
Are you as upset about radar guns in police hands? Traffic Cameras? Big city community surveillance systems? How about all the measures to keep track of you and the things you purchase in stores? Life today includes many such "invasions" of our privacy, it is how the collected information is used that can become a problem. For instance: Police fly over your community and use infrared radar on their helicopters. They often spot heat signatures that lead them to pot growers and meth labs. It can also be used, if very lucky, to locate an abducted child. But, if it were used to justify a warrant to confiscate property under the RICO laws, just to feed the coffers of the police department, then that would be an abuse in my mind. Have any of you been watching "Person of Interest" on TV? Luck; Ken Last edited by Ken Maltby; 07-15-2013 at 04:17 PM. |
|
07-15-2013, 04:30 PM | #43 | |
Interested Bystander
Posts: 3,725
Karma: 19728152
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
|
Taking it.
Quote:
|
|
07-15-2013, 05:05 PM | #44 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 91
Karma: 2129612
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
Device: Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, Sony PRS 505, Sony PRS T2, Kindle PW
|
Quote:
Matt Last edited by MattW; 07-15-2013 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Corrected an embarrassing its/it's typo |
|
07-15-2013, 06:34 PM | #45 | |||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
|
Quote:
Second best show on broadcast TV. Even granted that the show is (excellent) SF, the points it makes about the "cybersphere" we live in are valid and illuminating, no? Everything they do in the show, from cloning phones to tapping traffic cams is old hat. Not as magically easy as they show it, but doable. The Boston bombing is one example of the uses of the embedded surveilance we live under. And Boston is nowhere near as wired as New York or DC. Or London. From the US: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/26/te...oston-bombings From Australia: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/boston...428-2imkl.html From the UK: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22274770 How much things like this push your buttons is going to depend a lot of your attitudes towards technology, authority, and the rest of society around you. This debate is far from new, BTW. Niven and Pournelle examined the issues of security vs privacy in a wired society over 30 yars ago in OATH OF FEALTY, 1981. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Fealty_(novel) Quote:
Early in the book there is a scene where an ex-LA Cop starts work in Todos Santos Security and the first thing he is told is that he is not a cop anymore; his job is not to enforce laws and rules but to serve and protect the residents. Trust and loyalty runs both ways and people are comfortable with the environment they have *willingly* embraced. Of course, people on the outside have entrely different attitudes. The cuture clash is the the trigger for the conflict central to the plot of the novel. (Highly recommended, of course. One of the great SF Novels of the 20th.) Even earlier, Mack Reynolds covered a lot of the same territory in THE TOWERS OF UTOPIA, in 1975. http://www.amazon.com/The-Towers-Uto.../dp/0553068849 Quote:
One thing common to both books is that the people raised in the culture of the surveilance society see it as neither; to them it is simply the way things are. And that pretty much describes *our* world; like it or not, trust it or not, the System is in place. And it isn't going away just because somebody feels antsy. As long as people want to kill us just for existing, it is going to take actual evidence of actual malfeasance to even mount a challenge to the existence of thee System. We may not have the Person of Interest "Machine" yet. But if we don't, we soon will. We've been on that road for 40 years now. Last edited by fjtorres; 07-15-2013 at 06:39 PM. |
|||
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
today only: Amazon Local free voucher for $4 off Amazon mp3 album $7.99 or more | sufue | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 6 | 06-13-2012 07:31 PM |
Elgan: Here comes Amazon's 'Kindle for movies' I predict that Amazon will ship a vide | GeoffC | News | 15 | 05-23-2011 01:40 AM |
Mozilla Prism | DMcCunney | Lounge | 2 | 06-28-2008 08:32 AM |