Is DRM in ebooks a big issue? - Page 3

tompe · 01-20-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you read the terms and conditions on the web site you're buying from, you'll be fully informed before you buy precisely what it is that you're buying. I think you'll find that you are buying a restricted licence. This is a fact, not merely "what some publishers claim".

It is a fact that they claim that. It is not a fact that this is a legally valid claim. Especially since certain kind of licenses (shrink wrap) is not valid in spit of the seller claiming that they are.

HarryT · 01-20-2009, 06:06 AM

As I said - if you're not happy with the terms under which the site is selling, the answer is simple: don't buy!

tompe · 01-20-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

As I said - if you're not happy with the terms under which the site is selling, the answer is simple: don't buy!

And I am saying that it is not trivially true that the claimed conditions holds. If the site claimed you could not read the book on Mondays would you respect that?

HarryT · 01-20-2009, 07:55 AM

I would not personally buy from a site whose terms I couldn't agree to. Of course, I respect the fact that other people may feel differently; it's a personal decision. DRM really doesn't bother me personally, as you know.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 01-20-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

gordon h. bennett, how many more threads are we going to have on drm?

As many as it takes until we get it right, I suppose.

Tech_au: No one likes DRM. I doubt even the publishers actually like DRM. But if DRM actually does not impact your personal reading habits (as it sounds like it does not), then just ignore it, consider yourself lucky, and read your book. There are plenty of the rest of us to wheedle the subject to death, without adding to our number with someone who really shouldn't have to worry about it. For the record, those of us who do have DRM-related issues envy you to be free of them!

Your only issue, then, might be the restrictions DRM places on what you read your e-books on (like if you'd like an Amazon e-book, but do not own a Kindle), or if you like to move the books to multiple platforms, depending on your reading habits. If, OTOH, you do all your reading on the same device, and DRM does not prevent you from buying whatever book you want, see the previous paragraph.

GeoffC · 01-20-2009, 08:55 AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of DRM, though I am lucky in that I haven't had to (yet) stop reading a book because of it. Just wish someone would start a new thread on the topic with some new ideas instead of the usual tired old ones being (non) reinvented....

Even Zelda's thread on ePub has been hijacked by DRM....

OK - carry on .....

DDHarriman · 01-20-2009, 10:34 AM

Hi

“Is DRM in ebooks a big issue?”

The answer is simple: YES!

GeoffC · 01-20-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

Hi

“Is DRM in ebooks a big issue?”

The answer is simple: YES!

i like your style - short sweet and simple...

DDHarriman · 01-20-2009, 10:41 AM

Thank you.
You are very kind.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 01-20-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of DRM, though I am lucky in that I haven't had to (yet) stop reading a book because of it. Just wish someone would start a new thread on the topic with some new ideas instead of the usual tired old ones being (non) reinvented...

Care to suggest a few of those "new ideas?" You may find, if you look deep enough, that most of them have also been discussed ad nauseam around here... I've even started some, and gotten slapped around in these forums for days for my trouble... but if you have an idea we haven't covered, by all means, get it out there!

GeoffC · 01-20-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Care to suggest a few of those "new ideas?" You may find, if you look deep enough, that most of them have also been discussed ad nauseam around here... I've even started some, and gotten slapped around in these forums for days for my trouble... but if you have an idea we haven't covered, by all means, get it out there!

sorry ... can't .... if better minds than mine can't - I don't have a chance ....

pilotbob · 01-20-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I've even started some, and gotten slapped around in these forums for days for my trouble...

We did whip you with a wet noodle quite a bit. But, we only did it because we care.

BOb

Elfwreck · 01-20-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you read the terms and conditions on the web site you're buying from, you'll be fully informed before you buy precisely what it is that you're buying. I think you'll find that you are buying a restricted licence. This is a fact, not merely "what some publishers claim".

It's been ruled that calling a sale a "license" doesn't make it so; purchases are different from licenses-to-use in more than phrasing.

In one section, the judge noted a case where a person's "license" required she:

use the print only for her “personal use and enjoyment,” was required to retain possession of the print “at all times,” and could not sell, lease, license, or loan the print to any other person. Id. Despite the absolute bar on transferring the film, the court found that the “transaction strongly resembl[ed] a sale with restrictions on the use of the print.” Id. The
court held that the defendant could rely on the first sale doctrine with respect to his later sales of the print.

Quote:

If you find the terms of sale objectionable the choice is simple - exercise your choice as a consumer not to buy.

I don't buy DRM'd works.

Quote:

All the information is there for you to see before you make your purchase.

No, it's not.
There's generally some unenforceable, illegal terms in the TOS or EULA... things like "You may not modify, publish, transmit, display, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part."--even when the content in question is in the public domain.

Nobody has the right to say "you may not copy the words from MY public domain text." Which makes the rest of the terms questionable... if some sections are beyond their legal ability to demand, how much of the rest of it is also legally meaningless?

And many sites don't explain DRM at all, don't tell you that there's any restrictions on the books you can buy other than "you'll need this software to read them." They don't bother saying, "it's against our rules to attempt to read them on anything else."

Steven Lyle Jordan · 01-21-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

We did whip you with a wet noodle quite a bit. But, we only did it because we care.

Yeah, well, those noodles left scars, y'know... painful... emotional... scars...

Jim Lester · 01-21-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Yeah, well, those noodles left scars, y'know... painful... emotional... scars...

You guys are now responsible for an advanced case of Pastaphobia.

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01-20-2009, 06:06 AM	#32
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	As I said - if you're not happy with the terms under which the site is selling, the answer is simple: don't buy!

01-20-2009, 07:55 AM	#34
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I would not personally buy from a site whose terms I couldn't agree to. Of course, I respect the fact that other people may feel differently; it's a personal decision. DRM really doesn't bother me personally, as you know.

01-20-2009, 08:55 AM	#36
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of DRM, though I am lucky in that I haven't had to (yet) stop reading a book because of it. Just wish someone would start a new thread on the topic with some new ideas instead of the usual tired old ones being (non) reinvented.... Even Zelda's thread on ePub has been hijacked by DRM.... OK - carry on .....

01-20-2009, 10:34 AM	#37
DDHarriman Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 4380 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Almada, Portugal Device: Cybook Gen3, Sony PRS 505, Kindle DXG and Samsung Galaxy Note	Hi “Is DRM in ebooks a big issue?” The answer is simple: YES!

01-20-2009, 10:41 AM	#39
DDHarriman Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 4380 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Almada, Portugal Device: Cybook Gen3, Sony PRS 505, Kindle DXG and Samsung Galaxy Note	Thank you. You are very kind.