Complete newbie

[Steppin Razor]

Hello all. I've just started to look into e-readers because my dad wants one for his 75th birthday. The only two I've really heard of are the Kindle and the iPad. Being 75, my dad is obviously not hip enough for an apple product .
I've been looking a bit into the Kindle and found some not so promising information, specifically download issues with books even after they've been paid for.

I just want a reader that is simple to use, download and save books for, with a big enough screen to be read without much discomfort. I don't really know where to start. Price is sort of an issue, but if I have to shell out some extra to get my dad what he wants, then I will.

So if anyone has any suggestions or can point me in a direction where I can find the information I need, I'd appreciate it. TIA

[ATDrake]

Well, if you're referring to the 1984 incident wherein Amazon wirelessly deleted from their customers' Kindles a book that legal to be sold in Australia but not yet public domain in the US, then the kerfuffle over that was such that Amazon promised never to do that again and gave the affected owners compensatory gift certificates.

It makes things interesting when there's an updated (more typo-free) version of a book available and there's this entire dance wherein their Customer Service contacts you to tell you about the update and you contact them back to say that yes, you really do want the newer and hopefully more error-free version.

Nevertheless, I'd still back up all my purchases offline.

As for the Kindle itself, I'm generally satisfied with my K2i. It's not as fancy as an iPad, but it does the one thing it's supposed to do fairly well.

It is somewhat limited in the file formats it supports, and if you're buying anything off Amazon you'll have to find a place which sells DRM-free books, unless you/your dad are willing to strip any copy-protection (may not be legal even for personal use on purchased items in your locale) and convert, if necessary. But this is generally fairly easy to do, even with very modest computer skills.

And if your dad likes the classics, then Project Gutenberg and many other public domain repositories (including the forums here) make them available completely free of charge.

The Kindle has a useful dictionary function (you can buy and switch to other dictionaries if you don't like the one installed), can also play audio books in mp3 and Audible formats, allows text-to-speech on most titles, and can make highlights and take notes and do some limited web browsing.

You can load up your own books and personal documents and are not limited to just what Amazon sells you. They also supply a free conversion service for popular file formats (optional pay version to send the converted files directly to the Kindle via wireless) so that they can be read on the Kindle.

Amazon recently did major price drops on all the models, introduced the new "graphite" DX (with improved screen contrast), and there are rumours of a Kindle 3 Real Soon Now.

However, two things to beware of:

1) For bizarre and unfathomable reasons, the DX has the Next/Back navigation buttons only on the right-hand side (on the K2, both sides have a Next button). So if your dad is left-handed or otherwise has difficulty with using his right, then this may become annoying if he ends up having to flip the DX over to use it, especially if he wants to type on the keyboard while he reads.

2) If your account is registered with a billing/shipping address outside the US, then for non-free (i.e., not zero-cost public domain or time-limited promotional freebies), there is a $2 Whispernet fee included in the cost of the book (listed in the price, which will appear to be $2 more than the same book in the Kindle US store). You can get around this in various ways, but again it's one of those things that might have to be taken into consideration.

However, there are a *lot* of promotional freebies made available every week. While they're mainly evangelical Christian fiction and fairly explicit romance, every so often the big name publishers will offer some thrillers, mysteries, sf/fantasy, and historical/general literary fiction, especially when they're trying to promote a particular author's latest release by offering an older title in a series for free.

So this may be considered a value-add for some people. Mind you, one could also download them via the Kindle for iPad app.

As for the iPad, I'd say that it's a very appealing general-use device.

With it, once you have the various stores' reader apps installed, your dad will be able to pick and choose whatever he likes from the Apple, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, and probably Sony Reader ebook stores, to name the majors.

So if pricing/availability of certain ebooks is potentially an issue, then the iPad will give you the widest selection, with less of a "buyer lock-in" to any one store, if that's a concern.

Plus you can get apps to do a tonne of other things.

However, it may be too complex a device if he just wants to read books on it and doesn't need multi-function. And also it's said that the backlit LCD screen is much harsher on the eyes than e-Ink, and one might not be able to adjust the colours/contrast on some of the reader apps.

I suggest you ask your dad to see what, if anything, he wants out of an e-reader and pick whatever seems to best suit his expectations.

Hope this helps.

[Logseman]

Screen size is not too much of an issue, since font sizes are quite variable between readers and the bigger sizes are really big (many visually impaired people have turned to these readers and they'll never ever regret it). Thus, do not think too much of screen size.

The device I own, Pocketbook 360, matches your petitions very well: since it operates like a USB stick, the only thing you need to do is download the books, and move them to your device. Its form factor is praiseworthy, and many people in this forum are very happy with its purchase.

However, if time is not a pressing matter for your acquisition, I recommend you to take your time and explore the subforums. Most people are very satisfied with their purchases, others are less, but at any rate reading their opinions will give you a lot of information which will help you. However, the first quick glance should be directed to the Mighty Matrix, which is a handy way to have a first contact with other devices, aside of the Kindle you've been researching about.

[neilmarr]

Good to have your company, Steppin. Sounds to me like your dad would be better off with a simple read-only device without the bells and whistles but with good font-sizing capability. There are several out there at reasonable prices. My mother-in-law is eighty two and has used my Sony-505 often and loves it (will be hunting one down for her in good time for Christmas). Good luck with your choice and best wishes. Neil

[Worldwalker]

The iPad is not an ebook reader. It's a general-purpose ... thingie ... kind of an iPod on sterioids ... what can read ebooks, among other things. It's sort of the electronic equivalent of a spork. Unless he also wants to use the device as a Web browser, game platform, MP3 player, and some random number of other purposes, he'll probably be better served by an actual ebook reader.

Something important to consider: do you want to buy DRM-restricted ebooks? If so, you need to take the various readers' seller lock-ins into consideration.

I've got a Sony 505 and I love it. It's reliable, it's exactly the right size, it's got all the features I want (and not the ones I don't want, like a touch screen; I hate touch screens), the controls are laid out very well ... what's not to like? Well, except for the fact that Sony discontinued it; if you want a 505 like mine, eBay is going to be your best bet.

I came very close to buying a Kindle, and I'm glad I didn't. The deciding factor was actually how it felt in my hand -- frankly, it felt like a cheap plastic toy, while the 505 felt solid. There was also the fact that at the time, you had to pay Amazon to transfer your own files to the Kindle. And, of course, later on we all found out that Amazon can just come into your house and pull books back off your shelves if they feel like it ... or, at least, do the equivalent with your Kindle. That right there is a deal killer for me, and I'll believe "sorry, we won't do it again" about the same time I believe a politician's promises. That's just too Big Brother for me.

I don't buy DRM-restricted ebooks. I get my books from DRM-free stores, and a lot (aka "the classics") from public domain sources like Project Gutenberg, and right here on MR. My to-be-read list is growing faster than I can read. So if you don't want platform lock-in, DRM restrictions, and ebooks that cost more than hardcovers, that's the way to go.

What you really need to do, though, is look through some of the discussions here where we partisans extoll the virtues of our reading devices of choice, and talk to your dad and find out what features he needs. There's also really no substitute for actually holding and using the thing. You don't want to find out the button locations make your hand cramp up after you've already bought it.

Also, it seems like several manufacturers are coming out with new models soon, so in your place I wouldn't rush to make a decision; give it a month or two and see what hits the market.

[LDBoblo]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say a new Kindle DX. Normally I'd never promote a Kindle, but apparently it's going to have an upgraded screen, which should help improve readability a little bit. It's got a pretty simple store interface, if your intention is to simply buy books without the hassles that most ebook enthusiasts have to undertake. There are disadvantages to Kindle's closed market, but it's about as simple and untethered as you can get, and the screen is large enough for a wide variety of reading without being comically huge.

I would also recommend the iPad as it has more store options, but you seem to be looking for a stripped-down device. The Kindle DX is not bad for that. It's possible that other manufacturers will be announcing product revisions or successors that use the newer E-Ink displays, but it's hard to know when they'll come to market.

I would most definitely not recommend a Sony 505, as another suggested.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

The iPad is not an ebook reader. It's a general-purpose ... thingie ... kind of an iPod on sterioids ... what can read ebooks, among other things. It's sort of the electronic equivalent of a spork. Unless he also wants to use the device as a Web browser, game platform, MP3 player, and some random number of other purposes, he'll probably be better served by an actual ebook reader.

The iPad makes an excellent bookreader. Yes, of course it can do lots of other things too, but that doesn't make it any the less a good bookreader.

I came very close to buying a Kindle, and I'm glad I didn't. The deciding factor was actually how it felt in my hand -- frankly, it felt like a cheap plastic toy, while the 505 felt solid. There was also the fact that at the time, you had to pay Amazon to transfer your own files to the Kindle.

I don't mean to be impolite, but this is completely untrue. You can copy files onto a Kindle via USB just as you can with the Sony. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that you can also e-mail files to your Kindle and have them delivered wirelessly, for which service there is a small charge?

I don't buy DRM-restricted ebooks. I get my books from DRM-free stores, and a lot (aka "the classics") from public domain sources like Project Gutenberg, and right here on MR. My to-be-read list is growing faster than I can read. So if you don't want platform lock-in, DRM restrictions, and ebooks that cost more than hardcovers, that's the way to go.

That is neither an argument for or against the iPad or the Kindle. Both can read DRM-free books.

[Steppin Razor]

Thank you for your responses. Unfortunately I have procrastinated and only have a few days to get one, so I can't spend the time doing the kind of research I normally do before I buy. Otherwise I would definitely spend a few days just reading around the forums.

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

And, of course, later on we all found out that Amazon can just come into your house and pull books back off your shelves if they feel like it ... or, at least, do the equivalent with your Kindle.

That is what I was referring to in my OP. I also read that the Kindle 2 doesn't have a USB port, is that right?


Basically my needs are:
Decent screen size
Straightforward, simple to use
Can easily back up e-books on the computer and transfer back to device
Plenty of available e-books and stores at which they can be purchased


So far, I don't even know what's out there, except the Kindle, Barnes and Noble's reader, the iPad, and I've just been informed of the Sony 505 (thx).

[neilmarr]

Sony/Calibre, Steppin'. Folks are very protective of their favourite devices, but I'm willing to stick out my neck. Sony hardware, free Calibre library software. I swear by it. Never the whiff of a problem. Hoots. Neil

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steppin Razor

I also read that the Kindle 2 doesn't have a USB port, is that right?

No, that's not right. Certainly it has a USB port - it's how you charge it and connect it to your PC.

[ATDrake]

Originally Posted by Steppin Razor

That is what I was referring to in my OP. I also read that the Kindle 2 doesn't have a USB port, is that right?

Kindle has micro-USB, by which one can both charge and hook it up as an external drive to the computer.

It's very easy to transfer/back up the books (which you can download direct to the computer at any time from your Amazon account page) just by dragging and dropping. Even if they wirelessly delete something again, you can always restore it that way (if you've the backup), and turn off the wireless access.

Amazon is said to have the widest overall selection in its store and marketshare for ebooks sold, though I don't know how accurate that is.

You can also get compatible books from many other sources. Here's a recent post where a lot of free/DRM-free pay options for getting books were suggested.

However, for as far as DRM goes, Amazon seems to be the only ones using their special version of it, and they're not compatible with the regular Mobipocket DRM (even though they bought that company and the Kindle format is a modified .mobi).

Having an ADE ePub/PDF supporting device will give your dad a wider range of ebook-shopping possibilities, and having an iPad with all the various competing stores' reader apps installed will give the most.

Another consideration is that most ADE-DRM supporting devices can also borrow ebooks from the library, if your dad's have any.

If the iPad looks too unwieldy/pricey/insecure because of that warning going around where people's iTunes accounts have been hacked and things charged on their credit cards, I think I might suggest the Barnes & Noble Nook.

However, I have no personal experience with the Nook and hopefully someone who has can chime in with theirs. But it does look like it might suit your requirements fairly well.

There's a wi-fi version at $149, the regular version at $189-ish, and it can do both the standard ADE-DRM plus some special B&N-DRM that it currently applies to its own books. So you can get stuff from B&N itself that might not be able to be read on other readers, from regular ADE-DRM places like the Sony Reader store and the library, and benefit from free ebooks in ePub and PDF formats.

You can download the Nook User Guide PDF and have a read-through to see how easy it looks to use. They've recently updated the firmware to fix some issues that people were complaining about.

Barnes & Noble also offers these promotions where sometimes one can go into the store with a printable coupon for a free ebook, and I've heard that when in the store, one can browse through certain selected ebooks at one's leisure.

And they've currently an "All-American" long weekend promotion where they're offering 21 of their scholarly editions with commentary/footnotes/essays of Barnes & Noble Classics free until midnight tonight.

If your dad might have any interest in those, I'd advise setting up a B&N account in his name post-haste and getting the freebies "purchased to" said account right away.

He can always read them on your computer if you decide against the Nook. Plus they give you the B&N Classics for Dracula, Pride & Prejudice, and Little Women free just for signing up for a B&N account, and the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

[mike_bike_kite]

Random thoughts:

• Has your dad seen a particular ereader that he wanted?
• Is there anyone who could quietly show him an ereader just to check their suitability or is there not enough time?
• The Ipad is supposed to be quite heavy which might affect your choice but it can run lots of applications which ereaders can't.
• The Kindle DX has a larger screen that the Kindle 2 which might help if your fathers eye sight needs help.
• I like my Kindle (but all folks like their ereaders) but a chief advantage might be that he can get books onto it with no real effort (ie downloading onto PC and transferring via cable).
• I'd suggest a case as well as all ereader screens are moderately fragile.

[Rich_D]

I'd say Kindle, nook, Kobo or Sony would work best for your dad. You can purchase books through both the Kindle and nook - no pc needed. All of them will accept books via USB.

The nook will let you check out epub books from libraries. This was the feature that sold me on the nook above anything else. I don't regret my choice at all, but as Mike said above, everyone likes their own ereader!

[Steppin Razor]

Thank you all for your help. I ended up buying the Nook. The file format thing, library thing, price, and the fact that there's a BN store nearby where I could check it out made it my choice. At first, when my dad found out that e-books are the same price or slightly more than a paperback, he almost changed his mind on wanting the thing at all, but I think he'll use the newspaper subs as well as library books enough that he won't spend a fortune on books.
I don't have wifi at home though, which apparently is necessary to register the Nook before use. Not sure about the screen size, but only time will tell if it's too small for my dad. I think they could've made it bigger without making the Nook any bigger, but I don't doubt that the next generation Nook will have a bigger screen. Got to hold something back so people buy the next one.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Steppin Razor

Thank you all for your help. I ended up buying the Nook. The file format thing, library thing, price, and the fact that there's a BN store nearby where I could check it out made it my choice. At first, when my dad found out that e-books are the same price or slightly more than a paperback, he almost changed his mind on wanting the thing at all, but I think he'll use the newspaper subs as well as library books enough that he won't spend a fortune on books.
I don't have wifi at home though, which apparently is necessary to register the Nook before use. Not sure about the screen size, but only time will tell if it's too small for my dad. I think they could've made it bigger without making the Nook any bigger, but I don't doubt that the next generation Nook will have a bigger screen. Got to hold something back so people buy the next one.

Congratualtions on the nook, it's great and hopefully your father will enjoy. I know my father does. Downloading wirelessly was huge for him. He still struggles to sideload music to his MP3 player, wiithouth the wireless downloading feature, it would have been too much of a headache for him.


As far as registering his Nook, as long as you are in a 3G reception, you can register it that way , unless you got the Wi Fi only. If that's the case then I would go to your nearest BN and register it there, it hooks up automatically to it's wi fi or a Starbucks. Wireless routers are pretty cheap now, you should be able to pick one up at Best Buy or somewhere for around $30 for a basic one.

Good luck and come over to the Nook subforums if you have any questions.