04-24-2012, 01:45 AM | #76 |
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04-24-2012, 01:47 AM | #77 |
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This is actually the big deal.
And I should add to the previous post that the article in question was about whether indie writers should hire editors, not really about whether they should know grammar. The thing all writers need is to take their craft seriously. They need to be attentive to detail, they need to be driven to find out what makes things work and acquire the skill to do it. But I find there is often too much focus on window dressing when it comes to writing these days. Too many writers believe all they need is an editor to clean up the comma splices and it's all good. They should get a gold star for it. The only thing grammar is for is to reveal the story/message in the best possible way. That's it. It has no other purpose. Camille |
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04-24-2012, 01:57 AM | #78 | |
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But you did happen to hit on the key to that "No" of mine: Nobody needs to do any such thing. I might see a point if you said "an editor is useful to everyone." It might be a really good idea, but needs? Like it or not, someone who is self-publishing doesn't answer to anyone, and isn't going to answer to anyone. They don't have to justify anything at all, any more than you have to justify the color of your underwear. I mean, "forced to justify?" Forced? Seriously? Come on. You can't force anyone to justify anything to you. And why the heck would want to? Camille |
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04-24-2012, 02:00 AM | #79 | |
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Forced? Justify to someone else? Thanks, but I prefer a gentler, more relaxed world. But everyone's mileage may vary... Stitchawl |
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04-24-2012, 02:07 AM | #80 |
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Obviously I didn't phrase my previous post very well. I blame the late hour and an abundance of snuggly kittens.
What I meant was that anyone who wants me or anyone else to read what they've written needs to have someone else read it before we do. Someone who's not afraid to call the writer on short-cuts, sloppy character development, boring interludes that add nothing to the plot, et cetera. You know what i mean. I'm talking about that one trusted person who reads your first draft, and then looks at you and says, "this makes no sense, why is it even in here?" If you don't have a close friend in your life who will do that for you, hire an editor. Any moron can check for spelling and grammar mistakes. Forcing bad writing out so that good writing can replace it, is a different thing entirely. |
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04-24-2012, 02:21 AM | #81 | |
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This is actually why I have a bugaboo about the fussing over grammar: because so few seem to be able to handle pacing or character development, and such at all. They get an editor to fix grammar mistakes. There, all done! I quit a certain other writer's forum because the writers didn't want to talk about that stuff. They only wanted to talk about how the key to "quality" was copy editing. And the thing about that stuff -- the pacing and plotting and character development -- it can't be edited into a manuscript. You can learn from critique for the next one, but if you have lousy characterization, you can't just fix that. Camille |
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04-24-2012, 03:19 AM | #82 |
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Yes, proper spelling punctuation and grammar is what make the text easily understandable.
Quitte a few time I went when reading, because of typo, missed punctuation and other. |
04-24-2012, 03:26 AM | #83 |
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04-24-2012, 04:43 AM | #84 | ||
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But if the writer misuses a comma, ends a sentence with a preposition, or splits an infinitive, it doesn't detract from the story... for me. Not in the least. I don't read a book to play policeman. I have no interest in correcting a writer's mistakes, nor do his/her mistakes lessen the quality of a good book... for me. However I'm well aware that there are plenty of people who will stop reading a book when they find the second grammatical error, regardless of how well the plot or characterization has developed thus far. Stitchawl |
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04-24-2012, 04:54 AM | #85 | ||
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Also, despite your assertion in the article that writers (well, you) don't need editors, you then go on to agree with Scalyfreak that: Quote:
Last edited by LuvReadin; 04-24-2012 at 08:00 AM. |
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04-24-2012, 04:55 AM | #86 | |
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And very often, the SAGP are wrong, or at least out of date. I disagree with the lack of excitement, though - the history of English, as with most languages, is actually very interesting. The argument is often made that people got along for centuries with different spellings (at least 8 variations of Shakespeare's name, for instance) and a very loose grammatical structure, but that ignores the fact that populations were far smaller, and except for a small elite, most people lived close to each other, spoke the same dialect, didn't travel and couldn't read. As soon as the population began to expand and the availiability of printed books widened the audience for information, the need for clarity of expression began to make itself felt. |
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04-24-2012, 05:34 AM | #87 |
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Things seem to be getting a little out of hand here in places. The topic was about grammar. Editors are not (just) about grammar. Grammar is not (just) about commas in the right places. The right grammar can aid a writer to achieve much of what people have been talking about here as if it were somehow separate - character development and pacing. Pacing relies quite heavily on grammar to make the story flow appropriately at different stages. The subtle use of grammar can help to make certain aspects of character appear in the text without having to spell them out.
Grammar really is important. It's an integral part of what a writer produces, it's part of the story and cannot be separated from it, the same sequence of words with different grammar can tell a different story - or were you too busy eating Grandpa to really understand the point of that example? It was never about the comma, it was about how the reader understood what was written. If you get the grammar wrong but your message is still clear, then sure, the grammar mistakes are not important. But, if you get the grammar wrong and your story goes astray, then these are technical errors for which you only have yourself to blame. |
04-24-2012, 06:12 AM | #88 |
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04-24-2012, 06:16 AM | #89 | |
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-...5262554&sr=8-1 |
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04-24-2012, 06:22 AM | #90 | |
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Consider email and posts to forums like MR. How many times have we read a post and misinterpreted the writer's intent because the cues to tell us the intent were missing or poorly expressed? We often impose a tone to a post that may not be the tone intended, for example, thinking a post was intended to be insulting and snide when the poster had no such intent whatsoever. Grammar not only helps express clearly what is intended to be said, but also helps communicate the intended tone. Just as audible and visible expressions communicate intent and tone in oral communication, grammar does the same for written communication. Grammar is not just punctuation; it is also choosing the right word. Whenever I read "due to", I wonder what the author means. Use of "due to" is often a poor grammatcial choice because it leaves to the reader to decide what is meant, when it is the author who should be clearly stating what is meant. Good grammar ensures good communication and reduces the likelihood of miscommunication in the written word. |
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