PC sales Suffer Biggest Slump in years

[pl001]

Originally Posted by taustin

You'd think that, yes. Apple seems to have done OK with that plan, though.

The difference is that Apple makes very desirable products. I am not an Apple fan, but it's easy to see their appeal. Plus their marketing is about 100 times better than Microsoft's "it has a keyboard and stand that go click" dances.

[pl001]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

Businesses are not forced to buy software from a single source with Windows 8. they can buy desktop style software direct fromt he developer or from any vendor they choose as they did before. Modern apps must be purchased/downloaded through the store BUT Businesses can if they want run sideload all the apps they want http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/s...tore-apps.aspx

but i agree its not easy or cheap for smaller businesses to have sideloading ability for their Modern UI apps

Yes, in Windows 8 they can buy legacy desktop apps now or PAY for sideloading licenses that are only available in bulk and then jump through hoops to sideload Modern apps. In RT they can't do either.

So there are exceptions, but for the most part, most businesses are not going to do that and will be limited to Microsoft purchases for new apps, which is obviously what Microsoft wants. I can't see many businesses upgrading to Windows 8 until they are forced to when support for Windows 7 ends. By that time, Microsoft could be in serious trouble.

[pl001]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

sorry you feel i am propagandizing. it is not my intent. I changed my sig way back in October when i accepted the job offer to make sure people didnt think i was hiding my affiliation.

I just want to add that since the disclaimer is in your signature I also have no issue with your posts. I have found them to be constructive and I appreciate the insight.

[TallMomof2]

I was happy to see Win 8 come out because I was able to build a headless media server and use it to serve (stream) HD video while simultaneously running WHS 2011 in a virtual machine. I could not do this on the same hardware with Win 7. The UI doesn't bother me at all. I don't love it but I don't loathe it either. My Win 8 installation was a new install not an upgrade. If you can, it's always better to do a clean install.

I'm planning on installing Win 8 on my desktop. I like to try new things and I'm extremely happy with my server installation.

[afv011]

Looks like the outcry has reached Redmond.

Microsoft is planning to change the way its Start Screen operates with the release of Windows 8.1. Sources familiar with Microsoft's plans have revealed to The Verge that the company is currently testing builds of Windows 8.1, known as codename Windows Blue, that include an option to boot directly to the traditional desktop.

(...) but Microsoft has faced pressure from businesses and desktop users for options to suppress the Start Screen or bring back the traditional Start Menu and Start button UI.

Source

[jersysman]

Originally Posted by afv011

Looks like the outcry has reached Redmond.



Source

Looks like they tried to cut corners with 8 and consumers have bit back. They should have done this in the first place.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

that's not true. you can close modern ui applications with touch or mouse/keyboard. with touch you swipe from the top bezel to the bottom bezel sort of like throwing the app off the bottom of the display. there are other ways too including alt+f4 with the onscreen keyboard

I stand corrected.

Before I picked up my notebook I have spent some time on the net learning how to do basic stuff on Windows 8, such as switching that *bloody* Metro Internet Explorer into desktop mode, how to access the control panel or how to switch off the Windows. I have never before needed to do that, even when I was starting with FreeBSD, Linux or even more exotic systems.

You should have seen hapless customers (myself included) at Best Buy struggling with displayed tablets and notebooks with then-brand-new-Windows-8.

During my short use of Windows 8 I was avoiding Metro applications whenever possible. I couldn't stand them. I particularly dislike Internet Explorer in Metro. I can barely tolerate it in its desktop incarnation. But ... I can't stand the new Gnome or Unity either.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by pl001

I can't see many businesses upgrading to Windows 8 until they are forced to when support for Windows 7 ends.

It's hard to imagine Win7 lasting any less time than XP, which is still under support without any special arrangements. Windows 9 will be out in a couple of years. I'm expecting it to be more like 7 than 8. A lot more.

Originally Posted by pl001

By that time, Microsoft could be in serious trouble.

We can certainly hope. They're not doing well now. ZDNet, who have traditionally be hard core Microsoft fanboys, have pronounced Windows is dead

[taustin]

Originally Posted by jersysman

Looks like they tried to cut corners with 8 and consumers have bit back. They should have done this in the first place.

They didn't cut any corners. They went to a lot of effort to make Windows 8 suck that much.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by kacir

switching that *bloody* Metro Internet Explorer into desktop mode, how to access the control panel or how to switch off the Windows. .

unpin the tile, type control panel, push the power button

or if you want a software power button there is charms>settings>power>off or windows key + I then power>off or ctrl/alt/delete click power icon or put a power tile on the start screen and click it.

i actually like using the IE modern ui version sometimes. one issue i have though is if IE is not the default browser than the modern ui one disappears.you cant use it at all. so I use FF or Chrome but leave IE as default and associate all the file types with the others for opening etc

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

Am I alone in not liking tablets? or maybe I just haven't met a good one - the only one I've used much is the iPad 1, and I find it too heavy and awkward-shaped to use for long.

It depends on what you use it for.

I have a full workstation (PC), a laptop, a tablet, and a smartphone, and I use all of them. The phone's for looking stuff up on the go. The tablet is used to read PDF files, visit websites, and quickly looking things up without needing to boot the entire computer. The workstation PC is used for everything else, and the laptop has comparable specifications and the same software installed: I use it when I need a complete system when not at home.

Looking up websites, reading PDF's and comics, reading forums.... it can easily be done using a tablet. However, if I have to DO something (as in, answering an e-mail that says more than "Hi, OK"), I immedately grab either the laptop or the PC.

For me, a tablet will *never* replace a PC.

My father however (at 72) wanted to look things up on the internet. News, bird stuff, that sort of thing. He now has a tablet on a nice stand, and looking up sites and reading is the only thing he does. Five years ago, he would have needed a notebook for this. A tablet works fine, so this is one less notebook or PC that's being sold.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

unpin the tile,

That didn't occur to me at the time. But ... I have had the same problem un-maximixing applications [that start maximized by default [Grrrrrr]] under Gnome 3
That says a lot about intuitiveness of the latest crop of User Interfaces. Or, perhaps ... I am getting old. Scary thought.
If I want to use extremely powerful system where I need to learn lots of keybindings in advance, I will install Emacs(*). ;-)

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

type control panel

Doesn't work from Desktop. But I have looked up keyboard shortcut for that.

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

, push the power button

I am used to use mouse to log out and switch off the computer. I wanted to know how long it would take me to discover the way of switching the computer off using just mouse. So I didn't look that up, I wanted to find out on my own. I am Microsoft Certified Professional (I am an IT mercenary at work), so I figured out the power button 'trick', and I looked up the keyboard shortcut (windows key + I then power>off - I felt like when I was trying to learn Emacs many, *many* years ago). Besides you can always use Alt+F4 from the desktop - not sure about Metro Start Menu.

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

or if you want a software power button there is charms>settings>power>off or windows key + I then power>off or ctrl/alt/delete click power icon or put a power tile on the start screen and click it.

I wonder what genius decided that power-off button will be hidden under Settings charm .

Now that I think about it, I would like to know how Microsoft User Interface Naming Specialists Group came up with "Charm" name for that strange menu.

(*) I use Vim on all my systems as the main text editor

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by kacir

But ... I can't stand the new Gnome or Unity either.

Very true.

Unity woes, IMHO, are very important, and similar to Windows 8 story. It seems to me that the patterns of use for a tablet and traditional workstation are so different that any attempt to solve these two application spaces with one, unified, interface are facing a big resistance.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Ankh

Very true.

Unity woes, IMHO, are very important, and similar to Windows 8 story. It seems to me that the patterns of use for a tablet and traditional workstation are so different that any attempt to solve these two application spaces with one, unified, interface are facing a big resistance.

I've been using Linux since sometime in 1992, Unix since sometime in 1985. I love my command line...

For years I was a KDE kind of guy. That is until the new UI a couple of years ago. Happily moved over to Gnome. Then I upgraded to Ubuntu 12.04. Unity lasted less than 1 day until I figured how to install plain old gnome. Now mostly happy and I'll stay with this until support dies in 2017.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by kacir

Doesn't work from Desktop. But I have looked up keyboard shortcut for that.

ohh forgot who i was talking with for a moment. lower left corner right click, thats the kacir start menu

the "charms" name came from the iconography. they're supposed to be reminiscent of those found on a charms bracelet but... yeah.

Originally Posted by kacir

If I want to use extremely powerful system where I need to learn lots of keybindings in advance, I will install Emacs(*). ;-)