People who want no DRM are impractical dreamers... - Page 2

jgaiser · 03-17-2011, 09:23 PM

DRM failed in the Game industry. DRM failed in the Music industry. DRM is failing in the publishing industry.

It pisses off the honest folks and has no effect on the dishonest. The sooner the publishers understand that, the better.

kennyc · 03-17-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

DRM failed in the Game industry. DRM failed in the Music industry. DRM is failing in the publishing industry.

It pisses off the honest folks and has no effect on the dishonest. The sooner the publishers understand that, the better.

Unfortunately they won't understand til they are replaced.

stonetools · 03-17-2011, 09:50 PM

I think y'all are just preaching to the choir here. Head on over to Kindle Review and and argue with the original source of the argument. He is hanging pretty tough

JSWolf · 03-17-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

DRM failed in the Game industry. DRM failed in the Music industry. DRM is failing in the publishing industry.

It pisses off the honest folks and has no effect on the dishonest. The sooner the publishers understand that, the better.

DRM in the game industry was such that it caused the games to fail to run a lot of the time.

People will complain about eBook DRM when it bites them.

Catlady · 03-17-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

IOW, with no DRM, many more honest users would be tempted to steal and would steal e books. You should understand that mobile read forum users are a tiny percentage of ebook users, so you can't generalize from them. DRM does stop the vast majority of casual ebook readers from just stealing ebooks.

The vast majority never had any intention of stealing books in the first place, so DRM has no influence on their behavior. They only learn about DRM when it stops them from accessing their own books on a different device. So the very existence of DRM results in more people learning how to circumvent it.

jgaiser · 03-17-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

The vast majority never had any intention of stealing books in the first place, so DRM has no influence on their behavior. They only learn about DRM when it stops them from accessing their own books on a different device. So the very existence of DRM results in more people learning how to circumvent it.

+1 -- What she said. Until the publishers understand they are actively punishing their customers, we do what we must.

sabredog · 03-17-2011, 11:03 PM

when the Agency 5 restrictions came into play last year I was suddenly geographically restricted from titles I had purchased from both diesel and Fictionwise. The total cost was well over AU$120 spread over the two estores, though the majority was at Diesel.

Having my purchases within my accounts at the respective stores denied for download was a shock, though not entirely unexpected. I did have the books backed up and I did remove the DRM (most were MOBI or LIT). If I had not done so, then my purchases would have been locked away from me forever.

DRM does not only lock you, the purchaser, to a single device, it also can lock you to the estore you buy it from.

HansTWN · 03-17-2011, 11:04 PM

DRM that really worked would make sense -- but as far as I know the only scheme that hasn't been cracked is the one used for iBooks. And that is most probably because so few people buy their books that nobody cares. So all DRM does is annoy honest buyers who want to transfer books to other devices, etc.

Though in the case of the Kindle it works well enough, I must say.

Will they wake up? I doubt it.

Worldwalker · 03-17-2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

DRM that really worked would make sense...

Even the "DRM" of not having an ebook in the first place doesn't stop the bad guys. They just scan it. DRM only hurts the honest people; the pirates waltz right through it and go on their merry way. When someone is promoting a system that hurts the good guys and doesn't hurt the bad guys, either they're deluded about its effects or their reasons are other than the ones they claim in public. Either way, it's hurting the wrong people.

wyndslash · 03-18-2011, 03:48 AM

DRM wouldn't really hurt the pirates because they just don't care. what matters to them is if they can get the content for free, by hook or by crook. honest people often care.

darknessangel · 03-18-2011, 04:34 AM

I don't consider myself an impractical dreamer but a really practical...

rogue_librarian · 03-18-2011, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

You remove DRM and you make it really easy for the Naughty 10% to steal.

OK, so let's run with those "Naughty 10%" for the sake of argument. In order to make it "harder" (not really) for the N10, are you willing to piss off the "Nice 90%"? Or at least a significant percentage thereof.

Here's the problem: by providing an inferior product (defective by design, as the saying goes) you're not making it harder for the N10. It is, after all, easy enough to strip DRM (and, no, "better" DRM is not the solution, it will always be possible to remove it) and it needn't be done by the average consumer, either; one motivated, computer-savvy "pirate" will suffice.

You are, quite contrary to your intentions, providing an incentive for the N90 to look over the fence to dark side. You know you've got a problem on your hands when the "pirated" version is technically superior, i.e. allows you to do more with your file.

Quote:

We are rewarding them for stealing books by making it even easier to steal books.

That is BS. "Pirates" don't care about DRM (they remove it). The only people affected by it are legitimate buyers.

rogue_librarian · 03-18-2011, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

DRM that really worked would make sense

Now there's a contradiction in terms. Ask any cryptographer why you can't share secrets with and keep them from a person at the same time. Obfuscation etc. will buy you some time, perhaps, but at the end of the day all such schemes are defeated.

Quote:

And that is most probably because so few people buy their books that nobody cares. So all DRM does is annoy honest buyers who want to transfer books to other devices, etc.

Bingo, on both accounts.

sabredog · 03-18-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darknessangel

I don't consider myself an impractical dreamer but a really practical...

Ahhhhh, but remember the code is more like guidelines.....

kennyc · 03-18-2011, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabredog

Ahhhhh, but remember the code is more like guidelines.....

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03-17-2011, 09:23 PM	#16
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,281 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	DRM failed in the Game industry. DRM failed in the Music industry. DRM is failing in the publishing industry. It pisses off the honest folks and has no effect on the dishonest. The sooner the publishers understand that, the better.

03-17-2011, 09:50 PM	#18
stonetools Wizard Posts: 2,016 Karma: 2838487 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Washington, DC Device: Ipad, IPhone	I think y'all are just preaching to the choir here. Head on over to Kindle Review and and argue with the original source of the argument. He is hanging pretty tough

03-17-2011, 11:03 PM	#22
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	when the Agency 5 restrictions came into play last year I was suddenly geographically restricted from titles I had purchased from both diesel and Fictionwise. The total cost was well over AU$120 spread over the two estores, though the majority was at Diesel. Having my purchases within my accounts at the respective stores denied for download was a shock, though not entirely unexpected. I did have the books backed up and I did remove the DRM (most were MOBI or LIT). If I had not done so, then my purchases would have been locked away from me forever. DRM does not only lock you, the purchaser, to a single device, it also can lock you to the estore you buy it from.

03-17-2011, 11:04 PM	#23
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	DRM that really worked would make sense -- but as far as I know the only scheme that hasn't been cracked is the one used for iBooks. And that is most probably because so few people buy their books that nobody cares. So all DRM does is annoy honest buyers who want to transfer books to other devices, etc. Though in the case of the Kindle it works well enough, I must say. Will they wake up? I doubt it.

03-18-2011, 03:48 AM	#25
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	DRM wouldn't really hurt the pirates because they just don't care. what matters to them is if they can get the content for free, by hook or by crook. honest people often care.

03-18-2011, 04:34 AM	#26
darknessangel Addict Posts: 297 Karma: 1018140 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: PRS-505, iPad	I don't consider myself an impractical dreamer but a really practical...

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