Glo Glo Battery Problems

[samhy]

Originally Posted by samhy

Note: I can turn pages with the handkerchief, thus I think it makes a valid thing to put on the screen while being gentle enough for not scratching it or something.

First regarding the handkerchief and the IR detectors, I previously said that. But I'll try one more time with something else.

Originally Posted by John F

Verify that the handkerchief trips the sensors. If it does, drop the handkerchief on the screen, then slide the slider to put it to sleep.

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

As John says - make sure that whatever you use actually makes a page turn. If it does, leave it on the screen whilst you put it to sleep with the switch or let it automatically go to sleep.

Thank you John F and Peakcrew for your ideas, but I think they are testing something entirely different, if I understand well. For me it's like using a computer to download something and let the screensaver appears. Obviously, the download is still going on even if you can't see it, unless you set your computer to turn everything off when the screensaver is on. And so far, no one told one way or another what the Kobo devices are supposed to do if when they are synchronizing, for example, the user decides to push the slider.

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

Hmm. Actually, I've been discussing
- A Glo
- Manual sleep mode with slider (no sleep cover)
- IR beams interrupted when putting Glo into sleeve before it fully sleeps
- Gives lots of ridiculous battery drain
- Is solved by waiting after sleeping Glo manually before putting Glo into sleeve...

I've been doing my tests along what Mrs_Often and presumably others have been saying earlier. For me, it has always been: does something touching the screen in the very first seconds after having trigger a sleep mode can drain the battery? The idea behind that being that full sleep mode takes longer than expected or that the IR detectors are the last part of hardware to be shut down or ...

Mrs_Often's case (no pun intended) is very telling for me. She has a cover, but it's not a sleepcover. So she always triggers the sleep mode by using the slider, then she closes the case and yet during that short time something is happening

So for last night test, I let the Mini go back to sleep by itself (one minute without touching the screen just after waking it). When the screen started to turn blank before the cover image appeared I put the handkerchief and I have no battery drain to report.
I'll make one last try and I'll be using something different to put on the screen.
Keep in mind that hardware-wise, the Mini is the most basic of the three Kobo devices: no SD card slot, no light, no button in front as the Touch can have. I don't know if that has anything to do with my inability to drain the battery very fast (which is great for me ).

Last thing, if this post is all over the place or feels a little bit rude to someone, bear in mind that's it's not easy for me to explain all those things in English Thank you.

[Mrs_Often]

Originally Posted by samhy

You know what? Trying to fail, of sorts, on purpose is not an easy thing, I tell you
More seriously, I tried:
- put the Mini in sleeping mode w/ slider, then drop a handkerchief on the screen just after the cover image appeared,
- put the Mini in sleeping mode w/slider, then drop a handkerchief on the screen while the cover image is appearing,
- put the Mini in sleeping mode w/slider, then drop a handkerchief on the screen while the cover image is appearing and let all of them like that for 13 hours, the sleepcover setting being on but the cover remaining fully open during the test.

So far, no battery drain, just dust on the screen.

I'll try tonight to wait for the Mini to go back to sleep by itself (waking it but not touching the screen). Other than that, I don't see what else I can do. Any idea.

Seems like an extremely thorough testing to me, and exactly what I do when I do get battery drain. If you ask me, it is now clear that the Mini does not have this problem. Thank you a million Samhy, for taking the time to test this for us and taking an interest.

Originally Posted by VelvetElvis

Testing that now.

Heehee! I've always wanted an excuse to use that fun emoticon. Yay for you for finding one

Originally Posted by VelvetElvis

Is the consensus that anything touching the cover, once properly asleep, should not make a difference? I just confirmed that the pocket flap of this SkinDigital does indeed touch the screen when closed.

Yes, I'm using the same cover as I did when I had the battery drain (so the one that touches the screen), and if I wait for proper deep sleep before I put the Glo in the sleeve, the battery is fine with the sleeve touching the screen.

Originally Posted by samhy

I've been doing my tests along what Mrs_Often and presumably others have been saying earlier. For me, it has always been: does something touching the screen in the very first seconds after having trigger a sleep mode can drain the battery? The idea behind that being that full sleep mode takes longer than expected or that the IR detectors are the last part of hardware to be shut down or ...

Mrs_Often's case (no pun intended) is very telling for me. She has a cover, but it's not a sleepcover. So she always triggers the sleep mode by using the slider, then she closes the case and yet during that short time something is happening

Yep, I completely agree

Originally Posted by samhy

So for last night test, I let the Mini go back to sleep by itself (one minute without touching the screen just after waking it). When the screen started to turn blank before the cover image appeared I put the handkerchief and I have no battery drain to report.

Interesting... I would expect a battery drain with that for a Glo/new Touch – and not for the Mini.

Originally Posted by samhy

I'll make one last try and I'll be using something different to put on the screen.
Keep in mind that hardware-wise, the Mini is the most basic of the three Kobo devices: no SD card slot, no light, no button in front as the Touch can have. I don't know if that has anything to do with my inability to drain the battery very fast (which is great for me ).

Hmmm... if we'd go on the differences, it should be something both the new Touch and Glo have but the Mini doesn't... the µSD slot? I can hardly imagine that causing IR beam shutdown failure... Plus, the old Touch also has these things but doesn't have the IR beam shutdown failure. I don't know any differences between old Touch and newTouch/Glo...

Originally Posted by samhy

Last thing, if this post is all over the place or feels a little bit rude to someone, bear in mind that's it's not easy for me to explain all those things in English Thank you.

Not at all, your post was extremely fair and very clear

[Shai-Hulud]

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

I'm still thinking you have a completely different
issue to most of us.

Possibly with the Mk1 version. The Mk2 with Glo firmware bears too many similarities otherwise.

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

No idea what though. Did you ever test for wonky books?

To the point of nausea. I still have access to an old Touch and I've compared enough to know it's nothing to do with the books I'm reading.

[Shai-Hulud]

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

If there was any possibility that the silly little switch on the top (my biggest gripe with the Touch) could get accidentally moved to the on position, then I could suggest that behaviour is a feature, not a bug. However ...

This behaviour was not manifest on previous firmware iterations, it crept in unannounced, the short initial timeout marrs the use of the machine if you happen to prefer to fill the page with text using a small point size (or a slow reader), and crucially it doesn't adhere to the sleep/power off settings that the user sets. That's either an extremely poor UI change or an unintended feature introduction (bug)

[Shai-Hulud]

Originally Posted by samhy

Last thing, if this post is all over the place or feels a little bit rude to someone, bear in mind that's it's not easy for me to explain all those things in English Thank you.

Your testing is appreciated, so thank you for helping out. One thing though: I'm curious as to how you think we would necessarily know you were a non-native English speaker? Your English is more than passable and there's no location info in your profile or suchlike to indicate to the contrary

[John F]

Originally Posted by samhy

...

Thank you John F and Peakcrew for your ideas, but I think they are testing something entirely different, if I understand well. For me it's like using a computer to download something and let the screensaver appears. Obviously, the download is still going on even if you can't see it, unless you set your computer to turn everything off when the screensaver is on. And so far, no one told one way or another what the Kobo devices are supposed to do if when they are synchronizing, for example, the user decides to push the slider.


...

I have/had wifi disabled.

As a user, IMO, if I slide the slider, and it appears to go into sleep mode, and the screen says it is in sleep mode, then it should be in sleep mode.

[Peakcrew]

Originally Posted by samhy

First regarding the handkerchief and the IR detectors, I previously said that. But I'll try one more time with something else.

You did indeed - apologies.

Originally Posted by samhy

Last thing, if this post is all over the place or feels a little bit rude to someone, bear in mind that's it's not easy for me to explain all those things in English Thank you.

I had no idea that you don't have English as a first language. I didn't notice any rudeness either.

Now, just for fun, the result of my latest test on the original Touch. Put a different beam-blocker on the screen, which was so efficient it triggered a dictionary box. Took it off, placed it on a part of the screen that didn't have words. Was about to switch it off when disturbed by cat/furball separation maneouvre. Got back into bed, forgot to switch Touch into sleep manually. This morning, screen still showing the page I was on, but the Touch was locked-up - no response to anything except power switch. Switched off, switched on again, checked power - down from 78% to 40% between midnight and 9am . I don't have time to work through the possibilities, so I'll be back later.

[Shai-Hulud]

Originally Posted by Peakcrew

This morning, screen still showing the page I was on, but the Touch was locked-up - no response to anything except power switch. Switched off, switched on again, checked power - down from 78% to 40% between midnight and 9am

Just to confirm: this is the original Touch correct? If so, what firmware are you using? Certainly the battery drain figures are consistent with my observations on the Mk 1 *when* the problem occurred, but mine never locked up. It simply failed to automatically enter power-off from sleep mode.

[Peakcrew]

Originally Posted by Shai-Hulud

Just to confirm: this is the original Touch correct? If so, what firmware are you using? Certainly the battery drain figures are consistent with my observations on the Mk 1 *when* the problem occurred, but mine never locked up. It simply failed to automatically enter power-off from sleep mode.

Yes, Mk1 Touch. firmware is the latest (I haven't got it with me to check, but it updated about a month ago).

Interesting about you seeing the same with earlier firmware - mine did used to use quite a lot of battery, but I put it down to the number of annotations I was making at the time.

I'll try the same beam-breaker but a manual switch to sleep tonight.

[TechniSol]

Peakcrew,

Well, it sounds like you've observed the resulting power drain from initiating a touch and not resolving the situation. It is my belief, as I've stated any number of times in previous posts, that the neonode hardware having sensed an interruption maintains a continuous, or near continuous, IR output which is the drain... (sleep mode just makes it more mysterious because we assume the thing shut off "completely"/entered a low power microcontroller hardware sleep mode.) At least that's what I think because despite trolling the neonode site, I've yet to find a datasheet for the ZForce tech used in the Kobos. By the way, they do have some VERY cool demo videos over there... One device is shown with the sensors on the outside of the case/display where someone plays a driving game without touching the display in much the same way a driving game is played with an accelerometer orientation sensor or "gravity sensor", but without tilting the display. I would assume in that case IR is being reflected back to the device from the user's fingers to indicate position.

[TechniSol]

Samhy,

By waiting until the screen blanks during shutdown you may just be waiting too long and the neonode may already be disabled. Or you may be slow in dropping, etc, etc.

That's why someone else suggested blocking the IR prior to shutdown just to eliminate a timing issue.(Reduce the problem to it's simplest elements to reproduce the issue and establish the problem is repeatable, and then investigate further.)

Obviously, others have been flipping the switch to sleep or using the magnetic covers to trigger a shutdown and somehow managing to block the IR before it could shut off in normal usage or there would have been no complaints.

[VelvetElvis]

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

Heehee! I've always wanted an excuse to use that fun emoticon. Yay for you for finding one

Click the [More] link. There's a plethora of 'em!

Yes, I'm using the same cover as I did when I had the battery drain (so the one that touches the screen), and if I wait for proper deep sleep before I put the Glo in the sleeve, the battery is fine with the sleeve touching the screen.

Since I put it back in the sleeve, it dropped from 90% to 64% in about 18 hours, so I guess the question is, how long to wait before closing the cover? I was waiting about 5 seconds when it was out of the cover before even moving it. Evidently that isn't enough. Someone mentioned 30 seconds, I believe. Seemed like a lot, but I'll give that a shot. Purely for curiosity, as having to do this on a regular basis is impractical, at least in my case.

[samhy]

Big news! I finally succeeded in failing!
Yesterday, the battery was around 45%. I used the switch and as I was release it, I put my Mighty Bright TravelFlex light on the screen (the clip part, more specifically). About 8 hours later, the Mini has shut down by itself due to a low battery level. I turned it on just to check the battery and it was at 1%.

Good part is, now I'll be able to try Jgoguen's plugin, since I was waiting for another full discharge to plug the Mini to my laptop

TechniSol, I see your point, but can we state for sure that the proper behaviour for a device in use (synchronization, dictionary search, highlight...) is not to go on with it, even in sleep mode?

Off topic: don't forget that some people here are living in countries they're not coming from (Mrs_Often, paola, stitchawl come to mind). So the location details are sometimes different from the user's native language.

[Shai-Hulud]

Obviously if the IR is active after apparently entering sleep mode, this is simply wrong and should be corrected regardless. What I find intriguing is if this is the case, why does it use an order of magnitude more power than when it is fully activated and polling for beam interruption during normal usage?

[Mrs_Often]

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

Heehee! I've always wanted an excuse to use that fun emoticon. Yay for you for finding one

Oh, I meant, yay for you for finding an excuse to use that fun emoticon. I know where to find the emoticons

Originally Posted by VelvetElvis

Since I put it back in the sleeve, it dropped from 90% to 64% in about 18 hours, so I guess the question is, how long to wait before closing the cover? I was waiting about 5 seconds when it was out of the cover before even moving it. Evidently that isn't enough. Someone mentioned 30 seconds, I believe. Seemed like a lot, but I'll give that a shot. Purely for curiosity, as having to do this on a regular basis is impractical, at least in my case.

Weird. I don't wait as long as 30 seconds. I wait until the cover image is completely displayed and the screen has finished changing.

I wonder, does your case perhaps have an edge of material that slightly hangs over the bezel? Perhaps that is what is interrupting the IR beams and it's not the cover at all.

Originally Posted by samhy

Big news! I finally succeeded in failing!

Originally Posted by samhy

Yesterday, the battery was around 45%. I used the switch and as I was release it, I put my Mighty Bright TravelFlex light on the screen (the clip part, more specifically). About 8 hours later, the Mini has shut down by itself due to a low battery level. I turned it on just to check the battery and it was at 1%.

Yay! Well done and thank you. Good to know the Mini is affected after all.

Originally Posted by samhy

Good part is, now I'll be able to try Jgoguen's plugin, since I was waiting for another full discharge to plug the Mini to my laptop