Suppose I wanted to make an epub???

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

I'm studying up on CCS and ePub for now.

You might like to have a look at EPUB Straight to the Point by Elizabeth Castro; I think it's an excellent resource, especially if you're interested in InDesign and iBooks. She also wrote the excellent HTML XHTML & CSS, and the books fit very well together.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Thanks for explaining so far!
I can't help but think that epub code is far from optimized, much like how MS office creates HTML pages, with lots of things that aren't really necessary.

No, not really. All things are necessary. In essence you need the file structure (folders not required), the mimetype, the opf and ncx and one or more XHTML files.

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Suppose I just want to display my book, do titles in bold and larger letter type than the regular text; but I don't really care about what lettertype or fontsize it will be,
can I get rid of CSS, and just simply compress HTML files in an epub?

You don't NEED CSS, it only makes it easier, better structured and maintainable. If you are fine with the standard layout interpretation of the reader, you don't need it. Also, don't put stuff in you stylesheet you don't need. Keep it simple.

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Suppose I don't want an ID reference number, and I don't want external sites within my ebook,
What would be an utmost minimalistic epub (eg: one with no extra lines of code, one that just displays a cover photo, a toc, and one or two chapters)?

Certain things are required. An unique UID, the files mentioned earlier and some metadata. The title, author and language are mandatory. I would say you need one HTML for the cover, a TOC is included if you maintain your toc.ncx file correctly and a HTML for each chapter.

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Most of the manuals online add too much data in their epub. Data that I find is not really necessary. Like for those people that load their books from a file browser structure, adding a title within an epub book more than once is not really necessary.
In fact, I see no reason to write a book title within an epub, if it's already mentioned in the filename.

The title tag within a HMTL is not used. The tag must be there (part of the XHTML spec), but does not to be filled in. The title metadata in the OPF is required by the ePUB specs.
Frankly, what you think is important but if it is part of the requirements of the specs, you need it anyway.

Originally Posted by ProDigit

From point of writing a very minimalistic epub, I find that the epub format has way too much garbage in it, that is unneccessary for any user to read.
It may be good for having databases, and organizing stuff automatically, or converting books, but to read, all you need is a basic HTML0 book, I'd presume?

What do you consider to be garbage? Can you give examples? Metadata is hardly garbage, as it is helpful to identify a book. Remember, readers don't use filenames but the filenames. If you don't want all that, don't create an ePUB, but a HTML book.
Again, read about the format on the Jedisaber site. It describes all the really required files.

[DaleDe]

It is not necessary to deal directly with ePub if you don't want to. For simple ePub you can simply use Open Office writer and add the extension writer2epub available in a forum here at MobileRead and create your epub practically automatically. If you want to buy a program Atlantis can also direct save in ePub format.

Dale

[Freeshadow]

I'm not sure you can use 7zip because it (afair) doesn't support mixing stored and compressed files in a zip.
According to the specs the mimetype file inside of epub has to remain uncompressed.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

I'm not sure you can use 7zip because it (afair) doesn't support mixing stored and compressed files in a zip.
According to the specs the mimetype file inside of epub has to remain uncompressed.

It will mix but not in the same step. I use 7zip all the time to open ePub files and it does a fine job as it doesn't care what the extension is. Even with zip you need to use two steps. Make the mimetype first to ensure it is uncompressed and the first entry in the file. Both are important. And then add the other files.

Dale

[Freeshadow]

If so, should 7zip not be the recommend tool to use?
Don't know where, but I'm sure I read, 7zips zip implementation provides smaller archives than other zip making archivers (zlib based ones and and winzip were mentioned) while still having no compat issues with decompression (yes I mean zip not 7z archive files)

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

If so, should 7zip not be the recommend tool to use?
Don't know where, but I'm sure I read, 7zips zip implementation provides smaller archives than other zip making archivers (zlib based ones and and winzip were mentioned) while still having no compat issues with decompression (yes I mean zip not 7z archive files)

I use 7zip a lot. I like that it installs as a right click on my menu which makes it handy. I also use info zip from the command line. However, I seldom if ever make an ePub that way although I do use them to inspect and modify ePubs. For making an ePub I typically use Sigil but there are lots of tools that can make an ePub easily. Our wiki has a list.

Dale

[mod186k1]

In the Open Container Format (OCF) 3.0 They talk specifically of ZIP: no other format is supported (nor 7z or rar):

...
The OCF specification defines the rules for structuring the file collection in the abstract: the "abstract container". It also defines the rules for the representation of this abstract container within a ZIP archive: the "physical container". The rules for ZIP physical containers build upon the ZIP technologies used by ODF....

I suppose they choose zip because of its diffusion in the world (even in most library and operating system)

OCF is one of the standard ruling ePub format

[Freeshadow]

It even is on its wkipedia page:

When compressing ZIP or gzip files, 7-Zip uses its own DEFLATE encoder, which is often able to achieve higher compression levels, but at lower speed, than the more common DEFLATE implementation of zlib. The 7-Zip deflate encoder implementation is available separately as part of the AdvanceCOMP suite of tools.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Consider doing a navigable table of contents and NCX chapter marks instead.

Actually, the navigable ToC is a waste of time. Just make the ToC using toc.ncx. It's a lot easier and a lot better for ePub.

[ProDigit]

7Z can compress in several ways,
You can set the compression level from 'store' gradually in 5 steps to 'ultra'.
It still uses a standard zip encoder.
You can set word size, etc.. But I don't know if it'll affect epubs.

So far I've opened existing epubs with 7z, and added/updated some existing files within these epubs.
I don't think 7z supports compressing one file as store, while the others as a compressed format. it probably will want to compress all files (including mimetype) or compress none, depending on how you set the compression level.
For that reason I open and just update an existing epub rather than create a new one.

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, the navigable ToC is a waste of time. Just make the ToC using toc.ncx. It's a lot easier and a lot better for ePub.

I was thinking about using a toc like this.
However if I create a toc, based on HTML code (just display it as a page at the beginning like a chapter), I could save a lot of code!
HTML toc's only take up 2 lines per hyperlink, in this toc.ncx file, a hyperlink takes up 3 lines.

I find no reason why I should define an HTML, and then link to the definition, instead of just link to the html file?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, the navigable ToC is a waste of time. Just make the ToC using toc.ncx. It's a lot easier and a lot better for ePub.

Whether a navigable TOC is useful depends on your audience. You know the navigable TOC is going to be find-able in the book; whether the toc.ncx settings get used depends on the reader's awareness of the device's option. Not everyone wants to punish readers who are fairly clueless about the tech they're using, or who are borrowing a friend's device and have no idea where the TOC settings are.

However, I grant that for most linear texts, TOCs are pretty much a distraction.

[Freeshadow]

Prodigit you're wrong
When making a 7z archive you don't use the same method. As applied to zip archives (deflate algorithm)

What you want to do is try the AdvanceCOMP package.
This way you repack deflate streams (of any zip file) by using 7zips deflate implementation.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

I was thinking about using a toc like this.
However if I create a toc, based on HTML code (just display it as a page at the beginning like a chapter), I could save a lot of code!
HTML toc's only take up 2 lines per hyperlink, in this toc.ncx file, a hyperlink takes up 3 lines.

I find no reason why I should define an HTML, and then link to the definition, instead of just link to the html file?

There is a reason. While I disagree that an inline TOC is not useful, the TOC.NCX file is a must IMHO. I often include both particularly if the inline TOC adds value such as providing additional text that was in the original paper text version or provides an overview that cannot be readily seen in the separate file.

Saving a few bytes is a poor reason to leave out the toc.ncx file. An ePub features it to be able to bring up the TOC at any time while reading a document. This provides for a ready ability to be able to traverse the document as needed by the reader. This is the dominant reason for adding it. It is not, as you presume just a link to the definition. It is the only method defined by the standard for traversing the document by chapters. I believe a file is required even it it has only a single entry.

Dale