Erotic Novels

[HarryT]

What, as a matter of interest, is the difference between an "erotic novel" and pornography? Serious question.

[spooky69]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What, as a matter of interest, is the difference between an "erotic novel" and pornography? Serious question.

The United States Supreme Court's collective opinion. Serious answer.

[spooky69]

Originally Posted by wetterau

Hi, on www.memoware.com there is a novel, O+F, that has been downloaded more than any other but one in the romance category. I wrote it. Every good novelist has to deal with the biggies: love, sex, death, and evil sooner or later. O+F was my shot at sex and the overlapping borders it has with love. It's free in six different download formats. John Moncure Wetterau

I, too, have written excellent trash. My trash has been the inspiration for more imagined sex than any other porn writing on some website that I've never heard of.
Sometimes I imagine that I could promote my ideas on sex simply by writing an uncompelling sex story and then giving it a really ambiguous yet arousing (to trained apes who judge eroticism based on the shape of vague initials and their possible implied sexual meaning that you will soon understand only as soon as you download my free porn story) title.
Now, don't get me wrong, my sex stories are not just about sex. There's a really poorly written regular story hidden within my sex story that actually builds up the anticipation of the sex parts through disgustingly basic innuendo and allusions to non-sexual concepts. But trust me: when that sex part hits you...ohhh man!
Now, don't get me wrong; this popular sex story that I wrote and actually fantasize about people reading as part of my own desire for arousal is not just about sex; far from it.
Instead, my sex e-book is about passion; love; bondage; love; sexual activity; romance; sex; indulging yourself in the most basic of urges; passion; sensuality; sex.
Now, don't get me wrong; I'm no pervert. I mean, would a pervert spend hours and hours contriving a scenario that gets him/her off and then write it out and then write things that kind of don't get him/her off in order to maintain the appearance of not being completely masturbatory? Would a pervert try to subtly express their own subtle sexual deviances subtly by not having them be in a visual format but a textual one? Would a pervert write sex stories that are kind of classy yet still obviously entirely centered around the sex parts and not the plots? Surely not.
Now, don't get me wrong; I write sex porn stories. Still, my stories contain elements that are vaguely disassociated from sex and therefore this is an actual book that I wrote and not a non-book that is just porn and is probably really bad despite being a popular sex book.
The point is that my sex book is barely about sex, except for the parts where it is describing sexual concepts that get me off, in which case it is about sex, but in an extremely tasteful and literally valid manner. But still kinda sexy.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What, as a matter of interest, is the difference between an "erotic novel" and pornography? Serious question.

Isn't pornography supposed to 'corrupt and deprave' in UK law?

I tend to think erotica is a bit more subtle, and engages the imagination, more than pornography.

Nabokov's 'Lolita' is erotic, but not pornographic imho, because it is sensuous but not explicit (even though it's undeniably depraved ).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Isn't pornography supposed to 'corrupt and deprave' in UK law?

Is it? The porn movie industry is huge, and those tend to be bought by a wide cross-section of "normal" people for the purposes of, er, "pleasure". I don't think the typical porn film "corrupts and depraves" people, does it?

That's why I was asking whether there was a difference between "legal" pornography (which now in the UK covers an extremely wide range of material, sold through licenced sex shops) and erotic literature. They seem to me to be merely two different aspects of the same thing - to bring the reader/viewer a form of pleasure. I certainly don't see them as either corrupt or depraved, but perhaps I've just been so corrupted and depraved through my viewing of such material that I no longer notice .

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Is it? The porn movie industry is huge, and those tend to be bought by a wide cross-section of "normal" people for the purposes of, er, "pleasure". I don't think the typical porn film "corrupts and depraves" people, does it?

Sorry, I got confused between 'pornography' and 'obscenity'.

[spooky69]

You and me both, friend.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What, as a matter of interest, is the difference between an "erotic novel" and pornography? Serious question.

It has about the same relation as (on the woman's side) as the difference between marriage and prostitution. Serious answer. Or, if you prefer, between a democratic form of government and a dictatorship.

[Halk]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What, as a matter of interest, is the difference between an "erotic novel" and pornography? Serious question.

An erotic novel is pretending to take the moral high ground.
Pornography is being honest.

"I didn't read this erotic novel for the sex, I read it for it's weak plot and character non-development. It also gave me an insight into what happens when a plumber comes round and her husband is at work"

Edit : And before anybody goes and gets offended (Not my intention). I'm meaning what I saw when I looked at mobipockets "Erotica" books.

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/...1&Name=Erotica

They're just porn.

[Liviu_5]

If you are interested in erotica check Mr. Moynihan site, Olympia Press, where there are tons of 1$ multi-format classics of the genre.

http://www.olympiapress.com/catalog/

[wetterau]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What, as a matter of interest, is the difference between an "erotic novel" and pornography? Serious question.

A good question. Pornography has a single purpose: turn the reader on. An erotic novel is a story that contains sexually explicit scenes. These scenes serve the story rather than the other way around (pornography). The border between the two is unmarked and is sometimes decided in the courts.
Oliver (O) is a late bloomer, half Japanese, who misses his stepfather and has never met his father. He falls in love with Francesca on first sight. The story is about sexual awakening, love, and father-son relationships. It moves around from Maine to the west coast to Hawaii. O+F is not pornography. It is not up to Anna Karenina, but it is honest, written well, and well-intended.

[cmbs]

I've had people tell me porn is images and erotica is words. Personally, if it's explicit, I consider it to be porn. Not that it matters what you call it, it is what it is.

I think if the main goal is to tell a story (good reason to write a book), then you don't need the explicit scenes. I think they are simply there as a cheap way to get your attention (maybe so you don't notice how much the story sucks) and are unnecessary to telling a story. I feel the same way about movies.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by cmbs

I've had people tell me porn is images and erotica is words. Personally, if it's explicit, I consider it to be porn. Not that it matters what you call it, it is what it is.

I think if the main goal is to tell a story (good reason to write a book), then you don't need the explicit scenes. I think they are simply there as a cheap way to get your attention (maybe so you don't notice how much the story sucks) and are unnecessary to telling a story. I feel the same way about movies.

You could say this about anything. You don't need Indians in a western, "they're simply there as a cheap way to get your attention", likewise horses, six-guns, etc.

Sex is obviously a fact of life, otherwise none of us would be here. As a part of life, it is a part of any life story. You may consider it to be an ugly or "not to be talked about" part of life but nevertheless it is a part of life. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't there, but it is. Sometimes it does enliven the story and makes a significant point. Sometimes it is just filler and carries no real importance to the story being told. And sometimes it is the thrust of the story. (No pun intended.)

The main difference between what any of us define as pornography and erotica is that one is usually more subtle, gentle, and socially accepted than the other. I'll let you decide which is which.

[cmbs]

Originally Posted by slayda

You could say this about anything. You don't need Indians in a western, "they're simply there as a cheap way to get your attention", likewise horses, six-guns, etc.

Sex is obviously a fact of life, otherwise none of us would be here. As a part of life, it is a part of any life story. You may consider it to be an ugly or "not to be talked about" part of life but nevertheless it is a part of life. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't there, but it is. Sometimes it does enliven the story and makes a significant point. Sometimes it is just filler and carries no real importance to the story being told. And sometimes it is the thrust of the story. (No pun intended.)

The main difference between what any of us define as pornography and erotica is that one is usually more subtle, gentle, and socially accepted than the other. I'll let you decide which is which.

Excuse me, you're making some big assumptions. I don't pretend there is no such thing as sex. I know some people are like that, I'm not one of them.

Anything in a story that isn't part of the story and is intended simply to sensationalize and get your attention doesn't belong there, in my opinion. A good story doesn't need that. You can discuss sex and have mild scenes that are not explicit in a movie or book that fit in very well and are possibly necessary to the story. You don't need the explicit graphic details. And I find 90% of the time the sex scenes are gratuitious (particularly in movies). I'm not surprised people will defend them - they're being put there because they're popular and they work.

If you're watching or reading something for the sex scenes, fine, but call it what it is, don't call it a quality story. I think a good story will stand without cheap attention grabbers.

edit:
Some stories are not meant to be good stories. Some are all about sex, some are all about violence and gore, some are all about comedy. That is their point. That's fine when I'm in a mood for sex, violence, or comedy. I'm saying a good quality story doesn't need the graphic details; spewing blood is an attention getter, not a necessary part of a good story. I think it cheapens a good story when it's included.

[Halk]

Originally Posted by slayda

You could say this about anything. You don't need Indians in a western, "they're simply there as a cheap way to get your attention", likewise horses, six-guns, etc.

Sex is obviously a fact of life, otherwise none of us would be here. As a part of life, it is a part of any life story. You may consider it to be an ugly or "not to be talked about" part of life but nevertheless it is a part of life. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't there, but it is. Sometimes it does enliven the story and makes a significant point. Sometimes it is just filler and carries no real importance to the story being told. And sometimes it is the thrust of the story. (No pun intended.)

The main difference between what any of us define as pornography and erotica is that one is usually more subtle, gentle, and socially accepted than the other. I'll let you decide which is which.

I think you're missing the point entirely. I was trying to say that the Porn that's labelled as "Erotica" is trying to pass itself off as something it's not. It's porn.

I'm not saying that porn is ok, or it isn't ok. And it's probably not an argument that could be settled here anyway