03-31-2009, 02:03 PM | #1 |
Groupie
Posts: 195
Karma: 3142469
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Odessa, Texas
Device: 2 Kindles, 2 Nooks, 2 Kobos, Ipad.
|
Buying books in thrift shops and library sales.
I am curious how buying books in thrift shops, salvation army etc, and at library sales, for almost nothing, relates to piracy. There are numerous ways to get ebooks for free, scan your own, P2P, Websites, Irc. It is also, in the US, very easy to get real book for free or almost free. Thrift shops and book sales for as cheap as 25 cents. Either way the author gets nothing except for the first sell. How are scanned copies of books for free different from getting real books for free or almost free? I am thinking it is only illegal in the US to buy or sell books with the covers off of them, because they have already been turned in as unsold for credit.
|
03-31-2009, 02:06 PM | #2 | |
Banned
Posts: 5,100
Karma: 72193
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South of the Border
Device: Coffin
|
Quote:
|
|
03-31-2009, 02:28 PM | #3 |
Gadget Geek
Posts: 2,324
Karma: 22221
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)
|
It is easier to price that into the cost of the first sale since there is a known, finite number of printed copies. A digital copy can be infinite. It can be many places at once. It won't wear out as long as the format is kept current.
This is one of the reasons I think the publishing industry needs to change radically. They cannot possibly raise the price of the ebooks from where they are now to compensate for an increase in illegal downloading that will likely occur when ebooks become more popular. They will only lose customers. Right now, they're huge concerns that have power through their ability to be gatekeepers to the expensive print and distribution process. They've grown beyond what the new market will sustain. If the power shifts to the authors and they become professional services providing editing and marketing, then they can still make good money as smaller firms. (Yes, a lot of people will be out of work, especially those involved in the printing and print distribution chain. It's sad but that is a constricting industry and there's no helping it.) The author can retain the rights and control distribution. The reader will know they are directly taking away from the author if the download without paying. The price can remain attractively low. Some authors may opt to even accept payments after the fact from people who did download an unofficial copy and liked the book. |
03-31-2009, 02:35 PM | #4 | |
WWHALD
Posts: 7,879
Karma: 337114
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Mitcham, Surrey, UK
Device: iPad. Selling my silver 505 here
|
Quote:
|
|
03-31-2009, 03:54 PM | #5 | |
curmudgeon
Posts: 1,481
Karma: 5748190
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Redwood City, CA USA
Device: Kobo Aura HD, (ex)nook, (ex)PRS-700, (ex)PRS-500
|
Quote:
That said, somewhere along the chain between the retailer or wholesaler who removed the cover and returned it to the publisher for credit and you the consumer, there certainly is a person or organization who has at least committed fraud. By returning the cover for credit, they are certifying that the book was destroyed. But clearly, it was not (or you couldn't be buying it)! So someone lied for money -- textbook definition of fraud! It's up to you to decide whether or not you wish to benefit from someone else's crime. I sincerely doubt that any prosecutor would enter a case against you for traffic in stolen merchandise (or whatever the proper term is) over a book or two. A truck-load (or a bookstore full) might be a different story. My choice is to never ever purchase such books, mostly because I know that the author/copyright owner didn't get their royalty on them. Xenophon |
|
03-31-2009, 03:58 PM | #6 |
Banned
Posts: 5,100
Karma: 72193
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South of the Border
Device: Coffin
|
Well one of the ones I bought without a cover was an ee cummings poetry book that someone had hand stitched along the edge. I find it very fetching, and it only cost 20p.
|
03-31-2009, 06:44 PM | #7 |
ZCD BombShel
Posts: 4,793
Karma: 8293322
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA)
Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis
|
There for a while, every time you opened a book you would see in bold lettering the statement: "If you bought this book without a cover, you should be aware that it is stolen property. It was reported as "sold and destroyed" to the publisher, and neither the author nor the publisher has received any payment for this "stripped book".
|
03-31-2009, 06:56 PM | #8 |
Member
Posts: 17
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: PRS-505
|
I wouldn't assume a book without a cover is stolen. It could also just be wear and tear, unless the rest of the book is in mint condition and it looks like it's been cut off or something.
|
03-31-2009, 07:00 PM | #9 | |
Guru
Posts: 988
Karma: 12653
Join Date: Apr 2008
Device: None of your business
|
Quote:
An interesting side note is that hard backs that were autographed in store are also considered damaged and are recycled. I probably saw a few thousand signed texts destroyed while working there. (This didn't apply of course to signed texts which were done originally like limited editions) -MJ |
|
03-31-2009, 07:02 PM | #10 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,870
Karma: 27376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Device: PRS-505
|
Quote:
Phenomshel got it. I think you'd be able to tell if it fell off or was ripped off though. When I worked for B&N you were allowed to take the stripped books (I looooooved that, I got to read a ton of books that I would never have read, worked for the publishers too because then I'd buy more books by that author). I still have a few on my shelves that I'm trying to figure out what to do with (can't donate them and I feel bad chucking them). |
|
03-31-2009, 07:06 PM | #11 |
Reader
Posts: 11,504
Karma: 8720163
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Wales, UK
Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G
|
I once received a batch of stripped books directly from a publisher. I was teaching in a Further Education College in a deprived area. There was great rejoicing as we were able to give books away to students.
I didn't ask for the books. it was an unexpected donation. Thank you, Penguin. |
03-31-2009, 07:07 PM | #12 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,870
Karma: 27376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Device: PRS-505
|
Quote:
That was awesome of them We always hated throwing them in the trash, but I guess they used to donate them years and years ago but it created a lot of issues. |
|
03-31-2009, 07:27 PM | #13 |
Provocateur
Posts: 1,859
Karma: 505847
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Device: Kindle Touch, Kindle 2, Kindle DX, iPhone 3GS
|
Getting back to the original point, regular books have long been allowed to be resold without compensation under the first sale doctrine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine This is codified law and settled in the courts. However, many argue that the First Sale Doctrine should apply to ebooks as well. Software went the "licensing" route to get around this doctrine, with some success and some not. AFAIK, no one has tested this law with ebooks. |
03-31-2009, 08:08 PM | #14 |
Addict
Posts: 370
Karma: 1553
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Melbun
Device: Kobo H2O
|
I suspect you'll find that the court will consider ebooks to be software. Which is fine by me, it means I don't own most of the data on my computers I just have a temporary, limited license to use some of it in specific ways that may change at any time (and often do). As far as I'm concerned stupid licence terms free me from any moral obligation to the people issuing licenses, much as stupid job contracts free me from almost any obligation to the employer (the latter is actually the law, BTW [1]). It also encourages me to buy books from more reasonable authors and publishers.
As far as buying second hand books, I estimate that half the deadwood books I've owned have been second hand, including many brilliant books that I would have been happy to pay the authors for. Unfortunately the deadwood sale system is almost as stupid as the ebook rental system, so that proved harder than any sensible person would expect. What I have taken to doing is lending my liseuse to friends from time to time, loaded with books they want to read. I believe that that is within the rental contracts for the books. If not, I'd be happy to stop doing it in favour of the far more reasonable first-sale based option of giving the books away once I've read them. [1] I have been briefly threatened with legal action on the basis of an unconscionable contract... but the threatener decided to pay me to go away after hearing from my lawyer |
03-31-2009, 08:33 PM | #15 |
Provocateur
Posts: 1,859
Karma: 505847
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Device: Kindle Touch, Kindle 2, Kindle DX, iPhone 3GS
|
I suggest you review the URL I provided; it cites many case laws where the "license" argument was not upheld for computer software. Ebooks are even *less* like software and *more* like traditional books. The point is this is *far* from settled legally.
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
E-Books Are Only 6% of Printed Book Sales | Soldim | News | 37 | 10-04-2010 07:45 PM |
Restrictions on Books Sales | ronw | General Discussions | 41 | 09-27-2010 04:30 PM |
Does anyone browse the darknet library before buying an ebook? | greenapple | General Discussions | 114 | 08-27-2010 01:27 AM |
How to direct Library books to Calibre instead of Sony Reader Library | onebookie | Calibre | 3 | 07-19-2010 11:31 AM |
Buying a digital library membership | crumjd | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 8 | 01-20-2010 04:55 PM |