New Kindle Format 8 (HTML5) - Page 5

DiapDealer · 10-23-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

A format having a monopoly doesn't mean it's something that needs to be followed.

And a format that is followed need not be monopolized.

GoSharks · 10-23-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If ePub was to ever go away, Amazon would rule and that would be not good for humanity.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

I know I won't sleep well tonight now that I've been made aware of that nasty boogeyman Amazon and its desire to destroy humanity....

Zeebra · 10-23-2011, 06:37 PM

Format discussions remind me of quasi religious furvor arguments (you know like OS zealots have all the time)

DiapDealer · 10-23-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeebra

(you know like OS zealots have all the time)

We prefer Productivity Environment Activists.

GoSharks · 10-23-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

We prefer Productivity Environment Activists.

But you have to admit that the Essential Productivity Usage Brotherhood (ePub) is a more inclusive, better society!

Andrew H. · 10-23-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

A monopoly is never good for consumers. Which is why I support Amazon's efforts to keep the ePub format from attaining monopoly among the ebook formats. If Amazon wouldn't fight the good fight, ePub would rule and that would not be good for humanity.

Amazon has been sent back in time to prevent Epub from becoming self-aware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswinden

I suspect the DX models might be out of luck as well.

They will probably lose features.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

Amazon is not fighting a monopoly. They are leveraging their near monopoly on the ebook market in order to put out their own format, and in turn using the format to further enhance their monopoly.

Sorry, but amazon users cannot simultaneously argue that ePub is not a standard that needs to be followed AND ePub is a monopoly to be fought against.

Amazon has 2/3 of the US market and just over 50% of the global market. It's not a monopoly. Yet.

Also, "leveraging their monopoly" is usually a term that is used when a company is using its monopoly in one market to give it an advantage in another area. I.e., MS leveraged its monopoly in the desktop OS market to gain advantage in the browser market. There's no "format" market, so that's not really what Amazon is doing...any more than epub is leveraging its near monopoly to put out epub 3.

Barty · 10-23-2011, 11:06 PM

Okay, I don't want to turn this thread into an argument like the other one.

But here is the one thing I hate about mobi: it can't be edited. At least I don't have anything that can edit it. I'm the type who cannot settle in and enjoy a book if there's something about the format that bugs me. Like I am reading a book right now where every paragraph is inexplicably shifted to the right. So I have to edit it, which can only be (easily) done in ePub. (turns out they wrapped everything in a blockquote. Why?). Then convert back to read. pita.

DRM may bother me on a principle level, but the uneditable binary format bothers me on a practical level. It's the worst thing about the kindle, afaic.

DiapDealer · 10-24-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

I'm the type who cannot settle in and enjoy a book if there's something about the format that bugs me. Like I am reading a book right now where every paragraph is inexplicably shifted to the right. So I have to edit it

Must've been a real bitch having to correct, reformat and reprint those physical books before ebooks came along.

pdurrant · 10-24-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

But here is the one thing I hate about mobi: it can't be edited. At least I don't have anything that can edit it.
[snip]
DRM may bother me on a principle level, but the uneditable binary format bothers me on a practical level. It's the worst thing about the kindle, afaic.

No DRMed format can be edited (without stripping the DRM).

For Mobipocket, I refer you to the now rather sophisticated mobiunpack.py script, which when used in conjunction with Kindlegen gives a pretty good method of editing Mobipocket ebooks for minor (or even major) changes.

JMikeD · 10-24-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElMiko

I'm sorry I'm so behind the curve here. It seems that there's a well-established dislike for the .mobi format, but I've been unable to really find a breakdown of its flaws (something tells me that a forum search for "mobi" would be unproductive... or rather, excessively productive). Could someone tell me (or direct me to a particular post that tells me) why mobi stacks up so poorly to, say, ePub?

Edit: nevermind, I think I've managed to answer at least most of my question. Sorry!

Could you tell us where you found the info so we could learn this also? I've been curious, too.

pdurrant · 10-24-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMikeD

Could you tell us where you found the info so we could learn this also? I've been curious, too.

I don't know about sources of the info, but I can quickly address a few of the major limitations of the current Mobipocket format:

No image wrapping
No right indents
Inconsistent text sizing
No text transformations
No font support
No scalable images

jswinden · 10-24-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Must've been a real bitch having to correct, reformat and reprint those physical books before ebooks came along.

All kidding aside, I actually agree with @Barty on the crappiness of many eBooks as far as formatting goes. Printed books rarely have the terrible formatting associated with eBooks. As an example, I downloaded the Sample for a book on HTML5 and CSS3 yesterday. The text of the entire Sample was in Bold. I'm guessing the publisher forgot to turn off a Bold tag. All headings showed no space between themselves and the paragraphs above and below. There were a few other glaring formatting issues too. Okay, can you see what the issue with formatting was? Especially if you realize that this book cost $26 and ironically has as its main topic how to format. I would be willing to bet that the print version looks fine. Needless to say I chose to pass on this eBook and deleted the Sample.

Barty · 10-24-2011, 12:45 PM

^^^. Right. I've never come across a printed book with fubar'ed formatting like some ebooks.

Of course with a printed book, I know I can't do anything about it. Just have to soldier on or find a better copy or read something else. With an ebook, I know I can fix it. So I do. Sonetimes I want to email the publisher and say here, fix it for ya. How about a free coupon or something :-)

DiapDealer · 10-24-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jswinden

All kidding aside, I actually agree with @Barty on the crappiness of many eBooks as far as formatting goes.

I do too... I just couldn't resist.

jswinden · 10-24-2011, 03:06 PM

Yes, I get the feeling that eBooks are treated like the unwanted stepchild by most publishers. I keep hoping that will change now that eBooks seem to be outselling print editions in some markets. Eventually they should start paying more attention to the formatting, not that they will. I still see terribly written web articles on major news websites that would never make it into printed magazines and newspapers. So I guess the problem is with digital writing in general and not just eBooks.

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10-23-2011, 06:37 PM	#63
Zeebra Evangelist Posts: 461 Karma: 956567 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Toronto, Canada Device: Kindle Oasis 3	Format discussions remind me of quasi religious furvor arguments (you know like OS zealots have all the time)

10-23-2011, 11:06 PM	#67
Barty doofus Posts: 2,522 Karma: 13088847 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	Okay, I don't want to turn this thread into an argument like the other one. But here is the one thing I hate about mobi: it can't be edited. At least I don't have anything that can edit it. I'm the type who cannot settle in and enjoy a book if there's something about the format that bugs me. Like I am reading a book right now where every paragraph is inexplicably shifted to the right. So I have to edit it, which can only be (easily) done in ePub. (turns out they wrapped everything in a blockquote. Why?). Then convert back to read. pita. DRM may bother me on a principle level, but the uneditable binary format bothers me on a practical level. It's the worst thing about the kindle, afaic.

10-24-2011, 12:45 PM	#73
Barty doofus Posts: 2,522 Karma: 13088847 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	^^^. Right. I've never come across a printed book with fubar'ed formatting like some ebooks. Of course with a printed book, I know I can't do anything about it. Just have to soldier on or find a better copy or read something else. With an ebook, I know I can fix it. So I do. Sonetimes I want to email the publisher and say here, fix it for ya. How about a free coupon or something :-)

10-24-2011, 03:06 PM	#75
jswinden Nameless Being	Yes, I get the feeling that eBooks are treated like the unwanted stepchild by most publishers. I keep hoping that will change now that eBooks seem to be outselling print editions in some markets. Eventually they should start paying more attention to the formatting, not that they will. I still see terribly written web articles on major news websites that would never make it into printed magazines and newspapers. So I guess the problem is with digital writing in general and not just eBooks.

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