Why does the page refresh on eink devices bother people so much?

[gregcd]

Originally Posted by sherman

Seems the cold temperature really slows down the refresh process. And by cold I mean ~2°C or lower.

Ereaders must be cold-blodded

The sony prs700 doesnt flash at all between page turns, but the more recent 600 does. Maybe this is a premium feature that will return on the daily edition?

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by sherman

In most cases I don't even usually notice the screen flash on my PRS-505.

The only time I do is if I go to read somthing in the morning on a winter or early spring day. Seems the cold temperature really slows down the refresh process. And by cold I mean ~2°C or lower.

You know, I never considered the cold before. I can see times when reading in the cold would be something one might do...waiting for a bus, ice fishing, whatever...maybe Pentax needs to design an ereading device like their new K-7 DSLR which is good down to -10°C (14°F) and is weather sealed.

Anyway, interesting responses because there is a lot of whining about the flash and speed in one device forum plus there have been comments over the past couple years about how 'annoying' that flash was and how important a 'faster' page turn (as in the epson controller) is to a device. Seems most folks don't even notice it at all. I know I don't either.

[John Bailey]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Doesn't bother me. After the first few pages of the first book I read I was used to it.

Which is most likely the main reason people get so bent out of shape with this. They see it in a shop, or try one for a few minutes, and "OMG!!! It flashes all the time!! How can y9u read like that".

It's something that fades into the background after a little while. Personally, I think I had forgotten about it by the time I had finished the first chapter of my first book.

Just like a CRT monitor getting less sharp over time, or colours getting out of calibration, we adapt, and unless it is something that annoys us by the fact that it exists, we get over it.

We see, we process we ignore the less important stuff. The human eye is not a camera, so what we see is not necessarily what exists in our field of view.

[montsnmags]

I find it a minor but noticeable annoyance. If we're talking about speed, I wonder if I notice it because turning a page in a pbook occupies you for the period of the page-turn, while turning a page on an e-ink device requires a moment of waiting, no matter how small. That is, it's not length of time, but actually a difference in behaviour/reaction. Saying this, anticipation of getting to the end of a page and reflexively timing the press of the page-turn bar is something that diminishes that annoyance (it almost completely eliminates it, though as I approach my drowsy state pre-sleep I do find I sometimes hit the page-turn bar early without fully comprehending what I've read or giving enough time to read it, and then I have to go back. I don't do this with a pbook. ).

The other minor annoyance to me is that the refresh has a noticeable "flicker". That is, though it's simply a "refresh", it relates in my mind to "flicker", as a technological negative (eg. screen flicker, light flicker). My reaction to it is therefore negative. This is compounded by using a computer which has mostly imperceptible "flicker"/refresh on changing a page (eg. going to another tab in Firefox) and may also be due sensitivity to anything that "flickers", in my case, due to being a migraine-sufferer. I'm not suggesting that the flicker causes me a migraine (it never has, and I suspect never would), but rather that other flickers that have caused migraine have engendered an aversive reaction to anything similar.

None of these preclude me using the device at all, with its other benefits. For some reason to do with the way I naturally hold them, pbooks make my right thumb go to sleep (s again). I love pbooks. I always have. I always will. It just is what it is, and isn't part of my reasons for starting on ebooks.

So, yes, I find the screen refresh to be a "negative" experience, but most of my technological experiences are a conglomerate of specific, subjective value judgements which add up to a big ball of happy, sad, frustration, apathy, invisibility (often the best), et cetera. I like e-ink. While "better" technology may come along, its current operational aspects are enough to satisfy me (FWIW, the only deal-breaker I can think of for me for ebooks is user-select-dictionary-lookup - if a format doesn't support it, I'm not interested).

How does that abbreviation go? YMMV (actually, less "May" and more "Will Almost Certainly")

Cheers,
Marc

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I suspect it mostly concerns people who only see e-ink readers in passing, and they wonder if they could get used to it.

I think I recall one person here at MR say that the black flash annoyed them so much they returned their reader, but other than that, almost everyone says, "I noticed it for two minutes when I first got the device, and never thought about it again."

My thoughts, exactly.

These devices shine when it comes to long term use, but new adopters rarely have a luxury of long evaluation before the purchase. Still, the (statistically frequently) faulted assumption that page turn speed is important does hurt the adoption of the technology.

I agree with everybody else, the refresh rate speed has no impact on the primary function of the device, it is no issue for reading.

Where it does hurt, IMHO, is part of the software that falls into the maintenance and management of the book collection. Since it takes too long to page through long lists, it is impractical to store large collections on SD card. Another relevant application is dictionary lookup (narrow the search as letters of the word are typed, or navigation of nrapallo's Webster dictionary).

[Canuck_in_Japan]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Any similarly readable and low power screen technology that has a refresh time less 0.1s will wipe the floor with eInk. There just isn't one yet.

Actually there is. It's called the jetbook. I have one and that's why I don't complain about the screen flash anymore-because I don't have any

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

However, page turn rate for trying to skip past multiple pages is annoying. It never bothers me when reading (except for some badly-formatted PDFs, where the reader can take upwards of 5 seconds to flip the pages), but it can bother me when I'm trying to find a section. (I suppose a reader with search would fix that. Hm. May look into Aztak's Pocket Pro soon.)

I think the problem with searching is that it demands active recall on the part of the user. Passive recall is much more common for many readers, and cannot be satisfied very well with search functions. In these cases, paragraph size and shape (visual structure), common word placement, and other forms of passive information rebuild the location as it's passed in scanning. For example, I may not recall what the word was I wanted to find 30-40 pages back, but I passively remember that it was in a very short (1-2 line) paragraph about 30% down from the top of the page, and there were a several instances of italic words on the right edge of the page. I wouldn't be able to necessarily describe that when telling someone I was looking for it, but when I saw the page again, I'd instantly recognize it.

This is one reason I keep making my rigid PDFs and never reflow text. The page itself is a visual device that helps me navigate text through passive recall and cognition. I wouldn't call this kind of reading technique complex or esoteric at all...in fact I'm a little surprised that so many people here are content with only the most linear form of oral storytelling imitation.

Mind you, I think search function is to be expected in future readers because it's incredibly useful...but it isn't a complete solution. It certainly does add value to ebook readers though. I just think they need both navigation responsiveness as well as active search functions.

[Riocaz]

Originally Posted by gregcd

The sony prs700 doesnt flash at all between page turns, but the more recent 600 does. Maybe this is a premium feature that will return on the daily edition?

Err, yes it does, at least it does in the video reviews I've seen of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5wBUfVsnuU

From about 1:15 onwards clearly shows the page flashing.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

It doesn't bother me at all. I find the flash less disruptive than turning the page of a p-book.

As far as jumping ahead, I like the feature on most of the Sony devices that let you use the # keys to enter the page you want to jump to. And on the touch models you can zoom ahead by altering the page swipe motion. If that feature is on the Cybook, I've never found it.

Going from one page to the next doesn't bother me on my K2 either. I've pretty much learned to time the pressing of the "Next Page" button so that the page changes just as I'm reading the last line of the one I'm on. As you said; it's no more disruptive than turning the pages of a physical book.

Going back a few pages to catch something I've missed is another story. Sure, you can use the "Go To" page function to quickly go to a specific page (if you know the page number you want; which is rare), but hitting the "Previous Page" button a few times, then returning by hitting the "Next Page" button gets tiresome.

[dmaul1114]

It bothers me the first minute or two each time I read on my K1, but I don't notice it much after that.

I've learned to just hit next page when I start reading the last line and it will flip right as I'm finishing--so the pause isn't so annoying.

But yeah, it's very annoying if you're trying to flip forward or backward several pages. One of many reasons I don't want e-ink for academic books or PDFs as I'm always flipping through them to find a quote I highlighted and things like that which are just much quicker and easier to do with books and print outs.

[HarryT]

Question for the original poster: what makes you suppose that the page reflash does bother people? From the paucity of posts on the subject on MR, I would think personally that it bothers very few people.

[dmaul1114]

It seems to be mentioned in a lot of reviews--that could be where he got it from.

And I do see it mentioned in reviews here. But I never put much stock in reviews and impressions on enthusiasts sites like this as the diehards are more willing to overlook shortcomings that more casual users (like myself) so I put more stock in professional reviews.

[wodin]

I'm easily distracted and the page flash is distracting. It detracts from becoming deeply immersed in my reading.

[Hellmark]

I barely notice it.

[Mosherix]

I have an Ipod touch and when I went to see the PRS505 to the Sony Store I did not like the blinking at all. Yes I am one o those who did not try further.

I do agree however that it is something that you may get used to.

Any way..... I guess I will hold on to my "touch" for a little longer....