Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations > Book Clubs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-17-2012, 05:00 PM   #241
issybird
o saeclum infacetum
issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
issybird's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,114
Karma: 220864438
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
But some have already said they do vote based on who voted and.or how many votes were already cast. So we know this to be what does happen in an open vote.
You're mistaking rhetoric for reality.

Vote for a book that's got a shot, instead of an also-ran? Sure. But not voting for a choice because of who's voted for it? That's hyperbole.
issybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 06:36 PM   #242
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,510
Karma: 126422064
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post
You're mistaking rhetoric for reality.

Vote for a book that's got a shot, instead of an also-ran? Sure. But not voting for a choice because of who's voted for it? That's hyperbole.
That's not voting for the book you want. That's voting based on what someone else wants.

Now lets say we have 20 people total. Let's say 8 people have voted and one book has 7 votes and one has 1 vote and the rest have none. If the vote is open, these remaining people might not vote for what they wanted based on the way the votes are going making it seem like the one with 7 is going to be the winner. Now if the vote was hidden, these remaining voters could vote enough for a different book to make it the winner.

And the fact that some have openly said they sometimes vote based on what others have have and/or how many votes case means an open vote doesn't work properly.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 09:57 AM   #243
issybird
o saeclum infacetum
issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
issybird's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,114
Karma: 220864438
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
That's not voting for the book you want. That's voting based on what someone else wants.

Now lets say we have 20 people total. Let's say 8 people have voted and one book has 7 votes and one has 1 vote and the rest have none. If the vote is open, these remaining people might not vote for what they wanted based on the way the votes are going making it seem like the one with 7 is going to be the winner. Now if the vote was hidden, these remaining voters could vote enough for a different book to make it the winner.

And the fact that some have openly said they sometimes vote based on what others have have and/or how many votes case means an open vote doesn't work properly.
First, you're confusing two issues. In an open vote where we can see names, no one is voting out of spite no matter what they might say. Get over it.

The bigger issue reminds me of politics where a certain party claims that its way allows for individuality, but in reality it means only so long as you conform to its norms.

People can vote for what they want for whatever reason they want. Who is anyone to criticize someone else's reasons? Dressing up an "analysis" in words like best, fairest, proper, etc., etc., is just so much bs. Unfair might be scheduling a vote for 2 AM to 5 AM east coast time in North America, or for Tom to accept some "absentee" votes and not others. In an open vote, everyone has the same chance to time his/her vote, whether to vote early and try to establish support or to wait and pick one's preference out of the viable options.

I understand there are reasons for preferring a closed vote. Some people like a surprise, like waiting for the birth to find out the sex of a baby. Some think it gives better odds to long shots, but this has not been proved. It might be true; it might make no real difference. I suspect nothing can save a true long shot and the reason it doesn't get early or late votes is because people don't want to read it, but I don't care. I'd rather have the fun of an open vote, where people can keep checking back and campaign for serious contender. The more involvement, the higher the interest level and a more vibrant book group.
issybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 05:40 PM   #244
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,510
Karma: 126422064
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post
First, you're confusing two issues. In an open vote where we can see names, no one is voting out of spite no matter what they might say. Get over it.
I never said anyone was voting out of spite. I said some people admitted to voting based on what others have voted for and/or voting based on numbers.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 06:30 PM   #245
Fbone
Is that a sandwich?
Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 8,186
Karma: 100500000
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Nook Glowlight Plus
I feel there are too many voting choices. There doesn't appear to be enough votes for ten titles each month.

As I generally don't participate, you may disregard my post
Fbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:52 PM   #246
Hamlet53
Nameless Being
 
So Tom, has a decision been made as to how the voting process is going to operate? I know that a few of the proposals that have been discussed include:
  • all hidden votes
  • all open votes
  • poll on hidden versus open voting with months broken down into approximation of poll split
  • multiple choice voting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:36 AM   #247
WT Sharpe
Bah, humbug!
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,073
Karma: 157049943
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet53 View Post
So Tom, has a decision been made as to how the voting process is going to operate? I know that a few of the proposals that have been discussed include:
  • all hidden votes
  • all open votes
  • poll on hidden versus open voting with months broken down into approximation of poll split
  • multiple choice voting.
This have been rather hectic these past few days as we prepare for our upcoming winter contest, but I'll try to get a poll up soon on the question.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 08:49 AM   #248
sun surfer
languorous autodidact ✦
sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sun surfer's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,235
Karma: 44637926
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: smiling with the rising sun
Device: onyx boox poke 2 colour, kindle voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
This have been rather hectic these past few days as we prepare for our upcoming winter contest, but I'll try to get a poll up soon on the question.
I'm so glad all of you are doing these contests again. I remember when I first came here I saw one or two and then they went away for awhile...they make the site feel more special.

Also, regarding the polls, I mentioned it before but with all going on it could have been lost in the shuffle so I'll mention it again in case -

Could we please do a vote on multiple choice before open vs closed?

Multiple choice seems to have good support while open vs closed is contentious, and if multiple choice passes first, I think it would eliminate many of the arguments that may come up in an open vs closed vote, then making that vote go smoother with less argument and contention between those who favour open and those who favour closed.
sun surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:25 AM   #249
sun surfer
languorous autodidact ✦
sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sun surfer's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,235
Karma: 44637926
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: smiling with the rising sun
Device: onyx boox poke 2 colour, kindle voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
...I have no desire to do another mixed year; that has proven to be more confusing than I anticipated...
This was from another thread, discussing open vs closed, but I found it while perusing...I agree with you. The mixed year in 2012 was never really intended and resulted from us having a strange sort of tie in the poll last year. Overall I feel the mixed year has proved basically confusing and unnecessary, especially to you who has to keep up with it.

I think it'd be simpler and easier to have twelve months of one or twelve months of the other, and it'd be preferable even if the choice I like less wins. It would be good if whenever we have the open vs closed poll there's only two options, such as "open" or "hidden", and the winner takes all, and if there's a tie Tom breaks it.

Last edited by sun surfer; 11-22-2012 at 09:31 AM.
sun surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 10:13 AM   #250
Hamlet53
Nameless Being
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
This have been rather hectic these past few days as we prepare for our upcoming winter contest, but I'll try to get a poll up soon on the question.

Sorry, no problem there. For some reason I was thinking that this must be settled for the upcoming vote, but no not necessary until the January selection at the earliest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:57 PM   #251
WT Sharpe
Bah, humbug!
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,073
Karma: 157049943
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.
Two new polls now up for one week.

You asked for them; here they are: two new polls addressing questions much discussed in this thread.

Poll! Open vs Closed Voting in 2013

Should multiple voting be allowed in 2013?
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #252
sun surfer
languorous autodidact ✦
sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sun surfer's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,235
Karma: 44637926
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: smiling with the rising sun
Device: onyx boox poke 2 colour, kindle voyage
Jon had suggested doing away with the mandatory run-off polls in 2013 if we have multiple choice, and others thought it was a good idea, and I do too.

Since multiple choice gives everyone the freedom to choose what they want the first time around and will create larger majorities for the book that wins, it eliminates the main reasons we decided to use run-offs every month.

Doing away with them would also make things simpler for everyone and easier for Tom, and I think would get people even more invested in the first poll since it'd often be final.

So I propose doing away with the run-offs unless there is a tie.

And we could still put our 2012 way of doing run-offs to good use for resolving any 2013 ties - A shorter single-choice run-off for the tied winners, and if that ends in a tie then Tom's vote decides it.
sun surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 12:52 PM   #253
Nyssa
Series Addict
Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nyssa's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,180
Karma: 167189477
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun surfer View Post
Jon had suggested doing away with the mandatory run-off polls in 2013 if we have multiple choice, and others thought it was a good idea, and I do too.

Since multiple choice gives everyone the freedom to choose what they want the first time around and will create larger majorities for the book that wins, it eliminates the main reasons we decided to use run-offs every month.

Doing away with them would also make things simpler for everyone and easier for Tom, and I think would get people even more invested in the first poll since it'd often be final.

So I propose doing away with the run-offs unless there is a tie.

And we could still put our 2012 way of doing run-offs to good use for resolving any 2013 ties - A shorter single-choice run-off for the tied winners, and if that ends in a tie then Tom's vote decides it.
What she said.
Nyssa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:09 PM   #254
issybird
o saeclum infacetum
issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.issybird ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
issybird's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,114
Karma: 220864438
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyssa View Post
What she said.
I think a run-off is superfluous, too, but I hate to see poor sun surfer emasculated for the cause.
issybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 01:11 PM   #255
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,075
Karma: 62739845
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun surfer View Post
Jon had suggested doing away with the mandatory run-off polls in 2013 if we have multiple choice, and others thought it was a good idea, and I do too.

Since multiple choice gives everyone the freedom to choose what they want the first time around and will create larger majorities for the book that wins, it eliminates the main reasons we decided to use run-offs every month.

Doing away with them would also make things simpler for everyone and easier for Tom, and I think would get people even more invested in the first poll since it'd often be final.

So I propose doing away with the run-offs unless there is a tie.

And we could still put our 2012 way of doing run-offs to good use for resolving any 2013 ties - A shorter single-choice run-off for the tied winners, and if that ends in a tie then Tom's vote decides it.
Or no run off vote, and WT Sharpe decides if there is a tie.

Or how about no run-off vote, and we have discussions on all the winners. I'm up for this.
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Upcoming iOS 10.3 Discussion Thread jswinden Apple Devices 24 03-28-2017 05:17 PM
Firmware 3.15 discussion thread Lynx-lynx Kobo Reader 276 07-04-2015 06:33 AM
Wicked discussion thread. WT Sharpe Reading Recommendations 15 08-07-2011 08:11 AM
iLiad FBShot discussion thread scotty1024 iRex Developer's Corner 2 11-16-2006 05:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:38 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.