"Victorian" literature - is it an ok phrase?

Sparrow · 08-10-2009, 07:43 AM

In another post I described a novel as 'Victorian' literature.
(I.e. dating from the reign of Queen Victoria in Britain.)

But, now I'm wondering if this isn't an Anglo-centric phrase that won't mean much to many people in a world-wide forum. And some may think it's an Australian book (or from somewhere else with a 'Victoria' placename).

Would it be better just to use early/mid/late nineteenth century instead?

ficbot · 08-10-2009, 08:40 AM

If it's a British novel, I would say 'Victorian' is an apt description. My experience with literary categorization in university has been that there is great flexibility for non-British novels. For example, I was made to read Lives of Girls and Women by Alice Munro for FOUR different classes run by different branches of the literature department (first-year English, Women in Literature, Canadian Literature and Post-Colonial Literature). Now, obviously, every modern novel written by a Canadian is a 'Canadian novel' but is it also a 'Post-Colonial' novel? And what about novels written by Canadian citizens who were not born here, such as Rohinton Mistry, who won the Governor General's Award for his novel about a family in Bombay, India? Canadian novel or not?

Use whatever term helps you describe it and don't get caught up in semantics would be my advice

Does it matter, in the end?

Wetdogeared · 08-10-2009, 08:40 AM

You had me all excited. I thought a writer from Victoria British Columbia had a new novel out.

No, seriously, the Victorian age is a well known concept in my part of the world, but then again Canada was once a colony so possibly not as well known in all parts of the world.

The English Empire reigned far and wide and there are many places named after Queen Victoria.

If it's acceptable to name furniture styles and architectural styles "Victorian", I see no reason not to place a novel in the "Victorian literature" era.

WDE.

RickyMaveety · 08-10-2009, 10:55 AM

A perfectly apt description. The "Victorian Age" describes a period in history during the reign of Queen Victoria in England. That period may well overlap with some other periods in history, such as the "Napoleonic Age," but the term is still valid as a description.

Here in the States, we have houses we call "Victorian" or "Edwardian" ... not because they are of the style that was popular during those reigns. Similarly, we often refer to furniture as being Louis Quatorze because it reflects the style that was popular during his reign, and he certainly wasn't English.

Any time a style, of art, architecture, writing .... any time a style of anything becomes extremely popular during the reign of any monarch, it is common to eventually associate that style with that queen or king. If there is no globally known king or queen associated with the style, then it generally gets tagged either with a cultural moniker, or a designation associated with the period of history unique to that culture (such as saying "Federalist" or "Colonial" or "Early American" for types of American art, or "Mayan" or "Aztec" or "Hopi" for cultures in which the art or architecture did or does not change appreciably over a long period of time, but is clearly distinct.

In the states, since we change leaders at least every eight years, it's difficult to associate long term cultural trends with any one leader. It's easier to do in a monarchy since often the ruler sticks around as long as the cultural trend, and in some cases helps to set the style.

Geeze, I can be so long winded. Anyway, yes, it's perfectly fine to describe literature as Victorian or Elizabethan, or Georgian .... especially if those terms have been used since forever to describe that period of time.

HarryT · 08-10-2009, 11:58 AM

... although "Queen Anne" style furniture has nothing whatsoever to do with Queen Anne (1702-14); it dates from the last quarter of the 19th century.

DixieGal · 08-10-2009, 12:14 PM

Austen's works brought up issues that were currently happening in a highly stylised way, such as the breaking down of adherence to traditional values in families. Louisa May Alcott's Little Women could have been Victorian, except for being on the wrong side of the ocean.

Dickens' works showed the consequences of the breakdown of family and the cultural move to cities and industry.

Two sides of the same Victorian coin.

Mike L · 08-10-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

... although "Queen Anne" style furniture has nothing whatsoever to do with Queen Anne (1702-14); it dates from the last quarter of the 19th century.

I never knew that. Thanks for enlightening me.

HarryT · 08-10-2009, 01:13 PM

The people who designed it claimed that they were reintroducing the "graceful" styles of the reign of Queen Anne, hence the name.

Sparrow · 08-10-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The people who designed it claimed that they were reintroducing the "graceful" styles of the reign of Queen Anne, hence the name.

Rather like the Pre-Raphaelites actually being post-Raphael - but harking back to an earlier era.

to all who responded to my original query - it's much appreciated.

HarryT · 08-10-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Rather like the Pre-Raphaelites actually being post-Raphael - but harking back to an earlier era.

Yes, exactly like that

.

RickyMaveety · 08-10-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

... although "Queen Anne" style furniture has nothing whatsoever to do with Queen Anne (1702-14); it dates from the last quarter of the 19th century.

Well, that's probably why they usually use the term "style" after the "Queen Anne" designation. I could build a house today in the Victorian "style" it wouldn't make it a Victorian house.

Saying something is in the "style" of a certain period means exactly that. It means that it is an homage to that period. I can't believe that I'm having to explain this to an Englishman ....

RWood · 08-10-2009, 06:42 PM

Sparrow, I agree with Ricky, the term is fine. There are many aspects to Victorian Lit than just the time it was written.

Although somewhat written in the time period, I would not describe Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes as Victorian. Harry (who knows far more about Conan Doyle and his writings than I do) may disagree and if so, I am interested to know why.

Madam Broshkina · 08-10-2009, 06:48 PM

The cool kids prefer the phrase "Vic Lit"

RickyMaveety · 08-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWood

Sparrow, I agree with Ricky, the term is fine. There are many aspects to Victorian Lit than just the time it was written.

Although somewhat written in the time period, I would not describe Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes as Victorian. Harry (who knows far more about Conan Doyle and his writings than I do) may disagree and if so, I am interested to know why.

I would not consider Conan Doyle's works to be "Victorian" either. Perhaps they are in time, but not in style. Again, "style" being the operative word. The man was an author of the Victorian period, however, his writing is not as turgid as that of many of the writers of the time (especially those of the early Victorian Age).

carlobee · 08-10-2009, 10:13 PM

I was thinking about Queen Victoria the moment I saw the "Victoria".. i bet most of us would think that way too. so i guess you were right in that point.

08-10-2009, 07:43 AM	#1
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	"Victorian" literature - is it an ok phrase? In another post I described a novel as 'Victorian' literature. (I.e. dating from the reign of Queen Victoria in Britain.) But, now I'm wondering if this isn't an Anglo-centric phrase that won't mean much to many people in a world-wide forum. And some may think it's an Australian book (or from somewhere else with a 'Victoria' placename). Would it be better just to use early/mid/late nineteenth century instead?

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08-10-2009, 08:40 AM	#2
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	If it's a British novel, I would say 'Victorian' is an apt description. My experience with literary categorization in university has been that there is great flexibility for non-British novels. For example, I was made to read Lives of Girls and Women by Alice Munro for FOUR different classes run by different branches of the literature department (first-year English, Women in Literature, Canadian Literature and Post-Colonial Literature). Now, obviously, every modern novel written by a Canadian is a 'Canadian novel' but is it also a 'Post-Colonial' novel? And what about novels written by Canadian citizens who were not born here, such as Rohinton Mistry, who won the Governor General's Award for his novel about a family in Bombay, India? Canadian novel or not? Use whatever term helps you describe it and don't get caught up in semantics would be my advice Does it matter, in the end?

08-10-2009, 08:40 AM	#3
Wetdogeared Storm Surge'n Posts: 5,776 Karma: 8213195 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Lobster Capital Device: S0ny PRS-300/350/505/700/T1	You had me all excited. I thought a writer from Victoria British Columbia had a new novel out. No, seriously, the Victorian age is a well known concept in my part of the world, but then again Canada was once a colony so possibly not as well known in all parts of the world. The English Empire reigned far and wide and there are many places named after Queen Victoria. If it's acceptable to name furniture styles and architectural styles "Victorian", I see no reason not to place a novel in the "Victorian literature" era. WDE.

08-10-2009, 10:55 AM	#4
RickyMaveety Holy S**T!!! Posts: 5,213 Karma: 108401 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Diego, California!! Device: Kindle and iPad	A perfectly apt description. The "Victorian Age" describes a period in history during the reign of Queen Victoria in England. That period may well overlap with some other periods in history, such as the "Napoleonic Age," but the term is still valid as a description. Here in the States, we have houses we call "Victorian" or "Edwardian" ... not because they are of the style that was popular during those reigns. Similarly, we often refer to furniture as being Louis Quatorze because it reflects the style that was popular during his reign, and he certainly wasn't English. Any time a style, of art, architecture, writing .... any time a style of anything becomes extremely popular during the reign of any monarch, it is common to eventually associate that style with that queen or king. If there is no globally known king or queen associated with the style, then it generally gets tagged either with a cultural moniker, or a designation associated with the period of history unique to that culture (such as saying "Federalist" or "Colonial" or "Early American" for types of American art, or "Mayan" or "Aztec" or "Hopi" for cultures in which the art or architecture did or does not change appreciably over a long period of time, but is clearly distinct. In the states, since we change leaders at least every eight years, it's difficult to associate long term cultural trends with any one leader. It's easier to do in a monarchy since often the ruler sticks around as long as the cultural trend, and in some cases helps to set the style. Geeze, I can be so long winded. Anyway, yes, it's perfectly fine to describe literature as Victorian or Elizabethan, or Georgian .... especially if those terms have been used since forever to describe that period of time.

08-10-2009, 11:58 AM	#5
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	... although "Queen Anne" style furniture has nothing whatsoever to do with Queen Anne (1702-14); it dates from the last quarter of the 19th century.

08-10-2009, 12:14 PM	#6
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	Austen's works brought up issues that were currently happening in a highly stylised way, such as the breaking down of adherence to traditional values in families. Louisa May Alcott's Little Women could have been Victorian, except for being on the wrong side of the ocean. Dickens' works showed the consequences of the breakdown of family and the cultural move to cities and industry. Two sides of the same Victorian coin.

08-10-2009, 01:13 PM	#8
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The people who designed it claimed that they were reintroducing the "graceful" styles of the reign of Queen Anne, hence the name.

08-10-2009, 06:42 PM	#12
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	Sparrow, I agree with Ricky, the term is fine. There are many aspects to Victorian Lit than just the time it was written. Although somewhat written in the time period, I would not describe Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes as Victorian. Harry (who knows far more about Conan Doyle and his writings than I do) may disagree and if so, I am interested to know why.

08-10-2009, 06:48 PM	#13
Madam Broshkina Manic Do Fuse Posts: 2,312 Karma: 3325462 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: Sony 500, 505, 350, Kindle 3, DXG, nook, Irex DR800SG, iPad	The cool kids prefer the phrase "Vic Lit"

08-10-2009, 10:13 PM	#15
carlobee Fanatic Posts: 535 Karma: 972 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: The new iPad	I was thinking about Queen Victoria the moment I saw the "Victoria".. i bet most of us would think that way too. so i guess you were right in that point.

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