Is it legal to resell free content in USA ?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Maybe I read through the thread too quickly. But while source material in the Public Domain is available for anyone to use, Can't individual's work done to format and present the PD material be copyrighted (or at least protected in some way)?

In the EU, a specific edition of a book can be protected by what's called a "typographical copyright" which has a fixed duration of 25 years. But typographical copyrights don't apply to ebooks, and don't exist at all in the US.

If not, how can Barnes and Noble publish various classic PD books with copyright notices in them?

If the B&N editions contain additional material, such as an introduction, or footnotes, that additional information is protected by copyright even if the actual text of the book isn't. Of course, there's nothing to prevent anyone from putting a copyright notice in a purely public domain work - it simply has no meaning.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

If not, how can Barnes and Noble publish various classic PD books with copyright notices in them?

They do include an introduction and notes in their editions. Those would be protected by the copyright.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by H-P

Crich70,

Sorry with my english, i understand your reply but that not the real subject. DP isn't the God law (my point of view). Is a company can sell content done for free in USA. Is a company can be in competition in the business with an other one which give moneys to his workers. Don't you have commerce laws, which give some rules.

Is free works done by volunteers, can be reselled by a company without infringements of commerce laws. Even if a wesite say do what you want with it ! That not a copyright violation problem but....


So you want to make money, you want to be a publisher based on dp....Work baby and you should work hard, very hard to earn some dollars.

My expertise is with US government publications, which are often free and usually in the public domain. You can resell these because they are in the public domain. If a work is done by volunteers and distributed for free, the authors retain copyright unless they release it under a Creative Commons License or the like--and the Creative Commons License often has restrictions for reselling. You can sell free (or priced!) works that are copyrighted with the copyright holder's permission (I've obtained those, btw. Depending on what it is and why you're reselling it, some people may give permission).

The best way to make a profit on reselling free/public domain/copyright licensed work is to add value of some sort whether it be annotations, illustrations, or using the work as a part of a larger curated collection.

[bobcdy]

I'm not sure but I expect that the xhtml formatting for an epub of a PD book might be protected in the same way that computer coding is, but of course another person could easily modify the formatting and then resell the book without any problems

[crich70]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Maybe I read through the thread too quickly. But while source material in the Public Domain is available for anyone to use, Can't individual's work done to format and present the PD material be copyrighted (or at least protected in some way)?

If not, how can Barnes and Noble publish various classic PD books with copyright notices in them?

As I understand it if you take a book, say 20,000 leagues under the seas by Jules Verne (which is in PD) and do a new translation from the original French then that new translation is copyrighted to you even though the original is long past the copyright stage.

[H-P]

Is someone here has allready recopy a full paperbook to create an ebook ?

In my case, i definitly think that is unfair competition to cut and paste content done by volunteers, and making business with this kind of work.

This is unfair, because a publisher which work in this book industry can't pay salary, tax,...to create ebooks publications and stay in competition with someone who's pay nothing by using this kind of work.

Work done for free by free volunteers has to stay outside the business market. that definitly my point of view. I also think than a lot of volunteers who's created textes this last 10 years, didn't do it for some f... lazy guys.

---> Joykin, when you work 2, 3 weeks to make serious work for one ebook. And someone come with the full gutemberg in one ebook for 1 dollar. Do you think than you can sell your ebook for one dollar = one month of work.

And if you say, yes. The customer should have the choice between full books of one author, against one book...

And after making a good ebook, a stupid domain public guy (world is free (except for my house, my car, my ipad,, my..., my....), will think that domain public, i can cut and past it on Gutemberg, and an other stupid domain public guy, nice! a new free work that i can ressell it. Thank you so much nice volunteer !


If it's not an unfair competition it's a f.....competition.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by H-P

This is unfair, because a publisher which work in this book industry can't pay salary, tax,...to create ebooks publications and stay in competition with someone who's pay nothing by using this kind of work.

On further consideration, I see your point and, of course, you're completely right.

Similarly, Disney should not have made any of those cartoons based on out-of-copyright fairy tales. Clearly they were taking work away from story tellers.

And no-one should be making things based on expired patents. It's just wrong for them to make money from something that someone else created a few decades ago, when there are inventors still around, needing people to use and pay for their ideas so that they can pay their mortgages.

[In case it's not obvious, this is sarcasm. Copyright is a quid-pro-quo. Society grants copyright in exchange for free use of the material when copyright expires.]

[avantman42]

It's difficult to make a living selling out-of-copyright books. It's also difficult to make a living as an author or a TV repair man (my old job). If it's too difficult to make a living doing what you're doing, do something else.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by H-P

Is someone here has allready recopy a full paperbook to create an ebook ?

In my case, i definitly think that is unfair competition to cut and paste content done by volunteers, and making business with this kind of work.

This is unfair, because a publisher which work in this book industry can't pay salary, tax,...to create ebooks publications and stay in competition with someone who's pay nothing by using this kind of work.

Work done for free by free volunteers has to stay outside the business market. that definitly my point of view. I also think than a lot of volunteers who's created textes this last 10 years, didn't do it for some f... lazy guys.

---> Joykin, when you work 2, 3 weeks to make serious work for one ebook. And someone come with the full gutemberg in one ebook for 1 dollar. Do you think than you can sell your ebook for one dollar = one month of work.

And if you say, yes. The customer should have the choice between full books of one author, against one book...

And after making a good ebook, a stupid domain public guy (world is free (except for my house, my car, my ipad,, my..., my....), will think that domain public, i can cut and past it on Gutemberg, and an other stupid domain public guy, nice! a new free work that i can ressell it. Thank you so much nice volunteer !


If it's not an unfair competition it's a f.....competition.

I might point out that the books here at MR are based on Gutenberg editions which were put together by volunteers. Of course MR doesn't charge anything for downloading books that members have fixed and then uploaded either, but under your rules MR is taking $ away from traditional publishers who make ebook editions of classic PD books.

[H-P]

Originally Posted by avantman42

It's difficult to make a living selling out-of-copyright books. It's also difficult to make a living as an author or a TV repair man (my old job). If it's too difficult to make a living doing what you're doing, do something else.

Excellent idea!

i'll cut and past, thousand texts from Gutemberg and sell it on Amazon and co. Oh no cut and past is so difficult and boring. I'll create a script to import all content from archive.org, gutemberg, and co...on different e-commerce platforms.



"It's difficult to make a living selling out-of-copyright books"
On this point, remove all the cut and past made for free will give, less competion against the authors.

[H-P]

Originally Posted by crich70

I might point out that the books here at MR are based on Gutenberg editions which were put together by volunteers. Of course MR doesn't charge anything for downloading books that members have fixed and then uploaded either, but under your rules MR is taking $ away from traditional publishers who make ebook editions of classic PD books.

Of course, you take $ from traditionnal publisher. BUT that is VERY different case. And i have NO problem with that, i really don't care. Volunteers made free work (during 10 years) to share content, informations,... they didn't work for free for some f... guys who's ressell this work.

Even if a website say " do what you want with the content ", my point of view is that resselling this work is illegal practice in business circle that unfair competition again others companies. When you do a business you respect somes rules.... That's different from this site, which "share" the sharing free work.

Class action, class action...?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by H-P

Even if a website say " do what you want with the content ", my point of view is that resseiling this work is illegal practice in business circle that unfair competition again others companies. When you do a business you respect somes rules.... That's different from this site, which "share" the sharing free work.

I'm afraid that, whatever your opinion on the matter may be, it is assuredly NOT an "illegal practice in business circles" to sell public domain content. That's a simple fact. Please accept that it is so.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by H-P

Even if a website say " do what you want with the content ", my point of view is that resseiling this work is illegal practice in business circle that unfair competition again others companies.

But that's the point, it isn't illegal, at least in the US, which is where the original poster asked about, or the UK. It may be illegal elsewhere, of course.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by H-P

Even if a website say " do what you want with the content ", my point of view is that resseiling this work is illegal practice in business circle that unfair competition again others companies.

Except it's not illegal. You clearly think it should be but that's another matter.

And the "volunteers" did this know the copyright status of the work - i.e. they knew it could be sold. And any companies selling editions of PD works know this - they know they are competing against freely available versions on the internet. They went into that business anyway. They presumably believe they can add value that people will find worth paying for. Also they are just as free to take the work of the volunteers and use it as anyone else so the playing field is actually more level that a lot of markets.

[H-P]

Originally Posted by latepaul

Except it's not illegal. You clearly think it should be but that's another matter.

And the "volunteers" did this know the copyright status of the work - i.e. they knew it could be sold. And any companies selling editions of PD works know this - they know they are competing against freely available versions on the internet. They went into that business anyway. They presumably believe they can add value that people will find worth paying for. Also they are just as free to take the work of the volunteers and use it as anyone else so the playing field is actually more level that a lot of markets.

You're right about "that's another matter". English is not my native langage so IF.

Also like i wrote. If a website write in the mention, you're free to kill your mother". Private mentions are not above the law. The value for the reader let me laught , all this content is alredy available for free on Amazon and co...The value is for the bank account of this kind of publisher.


And about the matter,

Open a commerce, pay your bills, tax, salaries.... the day that you will see, next to the door a new shop, which break alls prices, because all products are done for free by volunteers. Tell me: is it a fair competion? Is it legal in US ?


So some volunteers know? realy do you know that some texts are cut and past from anonymous websites.

Except the geek world, is the customer know this kind of practice. Not sure.