A usage question---is this fair?

ficbot · 11-23-2010, 06:47 PM

A recent Teleread debate on 'piracy' had me curious about people's opinions on a scenario I find myself in. For what it's worth, I spend over $1000 a year on books and read over 100 of them, and consider myself a good book customer. I do not download from the darknet. So with that disclaimer out of the way, here is my scenario. I curious for opinions on whether you think it is fair or wrong.

I acquire a Kobo, legally. I have a Kobo account, buy Kobo books and have the Kobo app on my iPod and iPad. I do use these apps to read Kobo books I purchase.

I decide to give the Kobo to my mother. I bring her over, show her how to load the books (it is not hard) and hope she enjoys it. I load some DRmd (i.e. they will expire) library books onto it which I signed out, in her presence, with my card. She's happy.

She decides she wants a few books but for whatever reason is reluctant to buy them herself. I buy the books for her with my Kobo account, borrow the physical Kobo which is still technically registered to this account, and download the books onto it. Then I give the Kobo back to her.

The grey area is that I could technically use one of my other devices to read these books myself, simultaneous with my mother reading them on the Kobo, which is sharing. But the Kobo is still technically registered to me, the books I downloaded onto it were legally purchased by me, and Kobo does allow (and in fact encourages) one to have the app on more than one device anyway. And further, the Kobo device is, like a paper book, a physical object and while my mother has it, I do not. To me, it feels just like loaning her a paper copy.

It's kind of a moot question since I don't particularly care for any of the books she has so far asked for and won't ever read them, and the other stuff I have given her has been library books which expire after an interval. But the debater in me is curious---are Mom and I evil, dreaded pirates for this, or are we engaging in fair, legitimate use?

SensualPoet · 11-23-2010, 07:07 PM

Actually, Joanna, this isn't a moot point or skirting the law at all. You are buying a license for 5 (or is it 6?) copies of a DRMed book from Kobo. If you choose to register 5 Kobos, and load them all with your purchased content from one account, good on you.

You can create a reading circle with one account, buy five Kobos, and buy one copy of Joanna Skibsrud's Scotiabank Giller winning novel The Sentimentalists for $9.99, and allow all five members of your circle to read the book simultaneously. Try that with a paperback!

So, you gave the Kobo to your mom, but the content is all attached to that Kobo and your account under the 5 readers rule. There's nothing grey here at all. Happy reading!

starrigger · 11-23-2010, 07:17 PM

Even if you weren't specifically covered by the Kobo license, I see nothing wrong with sharing books with a family member. I do it all the time with ebooks, the same as I would with paper books. And I'm a guy who counts on copyright to help protect my livelihood. (Part of it, anyway.)

ficbot · 11-23-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Actually, Joanna, this isn't a moot point or skirting the law at all. You are buying a license for 5 (or is it 6?) copies of a DRMed book from Kobo. If you choose to register 5 Kobos, and load them all with your purchased content from one account, good on you.

Yeah, that is what I thought. I even got her a wall adapter for the Kobo, she has actually never plugged it into the computer to even charge it. It has only ever been on my computer and when she wants new books, she gives me the Kobo to take away and load up for her. It has only ever been registered to me and my account.

It's very co-dependent, really

But if you want to come over here and try convincing her that she can do this all herself if she wants to, more power to you. She seems to think the Kobo is a mystical item beyond her control and the easiest way to get a book is just tell me she wants it and have me do it for her

leebase · 11-23-2010, 07:20 PM

You are fine both legally and ethically. If kobo had a different policy, and you shared your books with your mom -- you'd be doing something illegal. Unethical? Well, lets just say that _I_ see a big difference between sharing a book within your family and putting it up on the net where thousands of folks can get it without paying.

For example -- I know it's illegal to get a copyrighted book from the "darknet". However, if I check out a hard back book from the library, and then get the ebook from the darknet so that I could read the book on my iPad, then delete the file when I take the hard back back to the library. I don't think I've been unethical, but that's a matter of personal opinion.

Oh, and I don't mean ME, I mean 'my friend' -- as I surely would never do anything illegal or unethical

Lee

Penforhire · 11-23-2010, 08:12 PM

I think you are crystal-clear-legal because the books are tied to devices, not users. Unless I missed some new funky EULA (always possible, lol), you could loan an e-reader to 100 people and it is just as legal as loaning a physical copy of the book around.

Luke King · 11-23-2010, 09:51 PM

I really wouldn't worry about it.

elemenoP · 11-24-2010, 09:17 AM

I think you're really nice to do that for your mom. This is the only way my mom would be able to use an ereader... but we live 3000 miles apart.

eP

taming · 11-25-2010, 04:55 AM

This also works for Joanna because her mom does not want to have anything but books bought through Joanna's account and applying the DRM though Joanna's ADE account on her device. You can load the same books, bought with the same account etc on the six devices (and six computers) with ease, but each device works with only one account at a time.

If Joanna let me plug into her account, the DRM encumbered books on my reader bought through my own account would convert to "locked content". Removing Joanna's book would magically unlock my own once I reauthorized my reader with my own Adobe ADE.

I believe other DRM schemes like kobo kepub (their own DRM) or Kindle DRM, does similar things--one device, one account. Kobo does this by only syncing one account per device. Sync with account #2, and all the books on your device through account #1 magically disappear. They can be reloaded when account #2 is gone from the device.

murraypaul · 11-25-2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

I believe other DRM schemes like kobo kepub (their own DRM) or Kindle DRM, does similar things--one device, one account. Kobo does this by only syncing one account per device. Sync with account #2, and all the books on your device through account #1 magically disappear. They can be reloaded when account #2 is gone from the device.

Don't know about real Kindles, but the Kindle app for iThings doesn't work like this. Although you can only download content for the currently authorised account, content from other accounts remains available and can be read.

taming · 11-25-2010, 05:42 AM

Kobo's issue is how the desktop application syncs with the I'm Reading list on the reader. Nice that Kindle bypasses that particular issue.

avantman42 · 11-25-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

So, you gave the Kobo to your mom, but the content is all attached to that Kobo and your account under the 5 readers rule. There's nothing grey here at all. Happy reading!

I'm inclined to agree. I'm not a lawyer, but it does sound like you're staying within the terms of your agreement with Kobo. In a similar manner, I've got a Kindle, and my wife has installed the Kindle Android app on her phone, registered to my account. Consequently, she has access to all the books I buy from Amazon. She doesn't really like reading on it, so it's mainly there in case she finds herself stuck somewhere with nothing to read - it's better than nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

But if you want to come over here and try convincing her that she can do this all herself if she wants to, more power to you. She seems to think the Kobo is a mystical item beyond her control and the easiest way to get a book is just tell me she wants it and have me do it for her

Sounds like my mum

She has a computer so that she can see my son's photos on his website. She doesn't know how to get to any other website, and has no interest in doing so. We set her up with Skype so she can have video chats with him, but we have to call her, then she just has to click the "Answer" button.

MikeFromHC · 11-25-2010, 04:07 PM

It is fair.

11-25-2010, 04:55 AM	#9
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	This also works for Joanna because her mom does not want to have anything but books bought through Joanna's account and applying the DRM though Joanna's ADE account on her device. You can load the same books, bought with the same account etc on the six devices (and six computers) with ease, but each device works with only one account at a time. If Joanna let me plug into her account, the DRM encumbered books on my reader bought through my own account would convert to "locked content". Removing Joanna's book would magically unlock my own once I reauthorized my reader with my own Adobe ADE. I believe other DRM schemes like kobo kepub (their own DRM) or Kindle DRM, does similar things--one device, one account. Kobo does this by only syncing one account per device. Sync with account #2, and all the books on your device through account #1 magically disappear. They can be reloaded when account #2 is gone from the device. Last edited by taming; 11-25-2010 at 04:58 AM.

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11-23-2010, 06:47 PM	#1
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	A usage question---is this fair? A recent Teleread debate on 'piracy' had me curious about people's opinions on a scenario I find myself in. For what it's worth, I spend over $1000 a year on books and read over 100 of them, and consider myself a good book customer. I do not download from the darknet. So with that disclaimer out of the way, here is my scenario. I curious for opinions on whether you think it is fair or wrong. I acquire a Kobo, legally. I have a Kobo account, buy Kobo books and have the Kobo app on my iPod and iPad. I do use these apps to read Kobo books I purchase. I decide to give the Kobo to my mother. I bring her over, show her how to load the books (it is not hard) and hope she enjoys it. I load some DRmd (i.e. they will expire) library books onto it which I signed out, in her presence, with my card. She's happy. She decides she wants a few books but for whatever reason is reluctant to buy them herself. I buy the books for her with my Kobo account, borrow the physical Kobo which is still technically registered to this account, and download the books onto it. Then I give the Kobo back to her. The grey area is that I could technically use one of my other devices to read these books myself, simultaneous with my mother reading them on the Kobo, which is sharing. But the Kobo is still technically registered to me, the books I downloaded onto it were legally purchased by me, and Kobo does allow (and in fact encourages) one to have the app on more than one device anyway. And further, the Kobo device is, like a paper book, a physical object and while my mother has it, I do not. To me, it feels just like loaning her a paper copy. It's kind of a moot question since I don't particularly care for any of the books she has so far asked for and won't ever read them, and the other stuff I have given her has been library books which expire after an interval. But the debater in me is curious---are Mom and I evil, dreaded pirates for this, or are we engaging in fair, legitimate use?

11-23-2010, 07:07 PM	#2
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	Actually, Joanna, this isn't a moot point or skirting the law at all. You are buying a license for 5 (or is it 6?) copies of a DRMed book from Kobo. If you choose to register 5 Kobos, and load them all with your purchased content from one account, good on you. You can create a reading circle with one account, buy five Kobos, and buy one copy of Joanna Skibsrud's Scotiabank Giller winning novel The Sentimentalists for $9.99, and allow all five members of your circle to read the book simultaneously. Try that with a paperback! So, you gave the Kobo to your mom, but the content is all attached to that Kobo and your account under the 5 readers rule. There's nothing grey here at all. Happy reading!

11-23-2010, 07:17 PM	#3
starrigger Jeffrey A. Carver Posts: 1,355 Karma: 1107383 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Massachusetts, USA Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab Plus, Droid phone, Nook HD+	Even if you weren't specifically covered by the Kobo license, I see nothing wrong with sharing books with a family member. I do it all the time with ebooks, the same as I would with paper books. And I'm a guy who counts on copyright to help protect my livelihood. (Part of it, anyway.)

11-23-2010, 07:20 PM	#5
leebase Karma Kameleon Posts: 2,934 Karma: 26616647 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn	You are fine both legally and ethically. If kobo had a different policy, and you shared your books with your mom -- you'd be doing something illegal. Unethical? Well, lets just say that _I_ see a big difference between sharing a book within your family and putting it up on the net where thousands of folks can get it without paying. For example -- I know it's illegal to get a copyrighted book from the "darknet". However, if I check out a hard back book from the library, and then get the ebook from the darknet so that I could read the book on my iPad, then delete the file when I take the hard back back to the library. I don't think I've been unethical, but that's a matter of personal opinion. Oh, and I don't mean ME, I mean 'my friend' -- as I surely would never do anything illegal or unethical Lee

11-23-2010, 08:12 PM	#6
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I think you are crystal-clear-legal because the books are tied to devices, not users. Unless I missed some new funky EULA (always possible, lol), you could loan an e-reader to 100 people and it is just as legal as loaning a physical copy of the book around.

11-23-2010, 09:51 PM	#7
Luke King Member Retired Posts: 173 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle 2	I really wouldn't worry about it.

11-24-2010, 09:17 AM	#8
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	I think you're really nice to do that for your mom. This is the only way my mom would be able to use an ereader... but we live 3000 miles apart. eP

11-25-2010, 05:42 AM	#11
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	Kobo's issue is how the desktop application syncs with the I'm Reading list on the reader. Nice that Kindle bypasses that particular issue.

11-25-2010, 04:07 PM	#13
MikeFromHC Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 880 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Pandigital Novel	It is fair.

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