Literary Noli Me Tángere by José Rizal - Page 3

Bookworm_Girl · 11-25-2014, 10:51 AM

I'm up to 70% and captivated. I struggled around 10% and kept falling asleep while trying to read. I think I was too exhausted from long work days. So I started over to reread those chapters last weekend when I had time in a block and my mind was fresh.

HomeInMyShoes · 11-25-2014, 11:27 AM

The first 10% were a definite drudgery for me. I'm still only 20% in. Its going to take me a while. The writing is so small in the copy I got from the library.

Hamlet53 · 11-26-2014, 03:52 PM

So I am about a quarter of the way through this and I am really enjoying this. I'll mention that my library informed me that the Lacson-Locsin translation I wanted will not be available. So I obtained the Kindle version of the Guerrero translation.

So I find Rizal's sarcastic wit worthy of Johnathan Swift.

Spoiler:

That he was at peace with God cannot be doubted; it was almost dogma. There are no reasons to be on bad terms with the good God when one is well-off, has never had any dealings with Him, and has never lent Him money. Capitan Tiago had never addressed himself to God in his prayers, not even in his greatest difficulties; he was rich, and he let his money pray for him. God has created (he would have argued) aloof and powerful priests to say masses and prayers of intercession, while, as for novenas and rosaries, He had, in His infinite mercy, created for the benefit of the rich, needy substitutes who, for a peso, were quite capable of saying even sixteen decades of the Holy Rosary in a row and of reading all possible prayer books, including, at a suitable increase in fee, even the Bible in Hebrew. If in times of acute distress Capitan Tiago needed divine help, and could not put his hands on even one Chinese red candle, he called on the saints, both male and female, to whom he had special devotion, making them uncounted promises to persuade them that what he wanted from them was good. But most of his promises he made to the Virgin of Antipolo, Our Lady of Peace and Happy Voyage. What is more, he kept these promises, which is more than can be said of his behaviour toward certain saints of lower category, with whom he was rather remiss and even ungentlemanly; indeed, sometimes, having got what he wanted, he put them out of his mind. It is equally true, of course, that he never bothered them again either. Capitan Tiago felt that there were many unemployed saints in the calendar who did not know what to do with themselves in Heaven. But to the Virgin of Antipolo he attributed a greater power and efficacy than all the other Virgins, put together, whether they carried silver sceptres, or a Child Jesus dressed, or a Child Jesus naked, or scapulars, or rosaries, or girdles. Perhaps this was due to the Virgin of Antipolo’s reputation for severity and concern for her prestige. According to the sacristan of her shrine, the Virgin, whom he claimed to be an enemy of the photographic arts, turned black as ebony when she was displeased, unlike other Virgins who were more indulgent and had softer hearts. It is well-known that certain people love an absolute monarch better than a constitutional one, and for proof there is the difference in fortunes between Louis XIV and Louis XVI, or Philip II and Amadeo I. For this reason, perhaps, people went on their knees up the length of the Virgin’s shrine to the foot of her altar, even Chinese unbelievers and haughty Spaniards. What defied explanation was why, for all that, the custodians of the shrine sometimes ran off to America and got married on the money offered to the fearsome Virgin.

It goes on like this for a few more pages.

fantasyfan · 11-28-2014, 08:40 AM

I look forward to this book, but it will be a while before I am able to finish it. Fortunately the excellent comments submitted by other members will be quite helpful. 😉😊

desertblues · 11-29-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasyfan

I look forward to this book, but it will be a while before I am able to finish it. Fortunately the excellent comments submitted by other members will be quite helpful. 😉😊

ditto. I'm leaving for New York in a few days.

crich70 · 11-29-2014, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertblues

ditto. I'm leaving for New York in a few days.

Have a good and safe trip.

HomeInMyShoes · 12-01-2014, 10:18 AM

I finished on the weekend. This book suffered from the wrong time for me to read it. I have read a lot of historical this year with my challenge. This didn't me much I didn't see coming and told me in a long-winded way. It was an okay read. I am glad I read it, but it didn't captivate me much. If I had read this in January or February my feelings might have been different.

Bookpossum · 12-02-2014, 04:54 AM

I'm a bit over 50% of the way through and must admit I'm still finding it a plod. I find it a bit disjointed and am not sure if there's a problem with the translation, or if it's because Rizal was just trying to make political comment disguised as a novel, rather than being a good novelist.

I'm looking forward to hearing what others have to say - is it just HIMS and me, or do others have problems too?

Bookworm_Girl and Hamlet, are you both still enjoying it?

Bookworm_Girl · 12-02-2014, 05:20 AM

I really enjoyed it even if it was predictable. There were times when I was totally captivated and didn't want to put it down. I didn't know much about the history of the Philippines so I thought the political commentary was interesting. I thought it was a nice parallel to our past read about the Spanish conquest of the Incas. The Spanish colonization had a different effect on this civilization that was remote and didn't have the mineral riches of the Americas or their own entrenched religious system. The Derbyshire translation has a good intro filled with history from a perspective near in time to the events.

I've also read a few books this year about the Reformation and Purgatory so that may have influenced my perspective too.

HomeInMyShoes · 12-02-2014, 09:21 AM

^I think I will look back more fondly on the book than I judge it now. I'll again say that I think timing means more than the book in a lot of cases for me. I am glad I read it, but maybe I was more hankering to read In the Shadow of the Banyan or the Stones Cry Out.

sun surfer · 12-02-2014, 03:29 PM

I wonder what the random dashes in the text are for, at least in the Augenbram edition. Are they in the original text? They seem nonsensical but perhaps there's an explanation eluding me.

Bookpossum · 12-07-2014, 07:24 AM

Well, I have finally managed to finish it. I didn't read the introduction or do any background research because I decided that it had to stand or fall as a literary novel, rather than as an important book because of its reflections of the troubled past of the Philippines.

For me it didn't do well in the literary stakes. I found it very disjointed, lurching from one situation to another, and then with no more information (for example about Basilio and his brother) for a few hundred pages. Maybe Rizal needed a good editor.

It's always hard to know how much of the problem lies with the translation. But assuming that the flow (or lack of it) reflects the original, then I don't think my difficulties with it can be laid at the translator's door.

issybird, I saw on Goodreads that you gave it four stars, and will be really interested to hear what you have to say about it, especially as it was your nomination. Sorry I didn't like it better.

paola · 03-17-2015, 05:28 PM

[QUOTE=Bookpossum;2996506]
For me it didn't do well in the literary stakes. I found it very disjointed, lurching from one situation to another, and then with no more information (for example about Basilio and his brother) for a few hundred pages. Maybe Rizal needed a good editor.[QUOTE]
same for me - it did take me forever to finish it, but for reasons others than a "plodding through" feeling - various domestic distractions meant I've been having ridiculously little time to read, and my brain is paying for it

Or to be more precise, I found the first three or four chapters slow going, but then I got in the rhythm.

So though I found it invaluable as a witness of the time, place and culture - and similarly to Mishima and his tetralogy, knowing Rizal's endt made reading it all the more poignant. As a literary text, however, I did not enjoy it very much.

It is a project book, aimed at firing people up, so some black and white was in order. Still, the almost saintly purity of various of the characters (not just the two main protagonists, but several others, like Tasio, Elias, and so on) did irk me quite often.

Nevertheless I have enjoyed reading it, and is one of those books that I keep thinking back to long after I've finished it.

12-02-2014, 05:20 AM	#39
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	I really enjoyed it even if it was predictable. There were times when I was totally captivated and didn't want to put it down. I didn't know much about the history of the Philippines so I thought the political commentary was interesting. I thought it was a nice parallel to our past read about the Spanish conquest of the Incas. The Spanish colonization had a different effect on this civilization that was remote and didn't have the mineral riches of the Americas or their own entrenched religious system. The Derbyshire translation has a good intro filled with history from a perspective near in time to the events. I've also read a few books this year about the Reformation and Purgatory so that may have influenced my perspective too. Last edited by Bookworm_Girl; 12-02-2014 at 05:31 AM.

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11-25-2014, 10:51 AM	#31
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	I'm up to 70% and captivated. I struggled around 10% and kept falling asleep while trying to read. I think I was too exhausted from long work days. So I started over to reread those chapters last weekend when I had time in a block and my mind was fresh.

11-25-2014, 11:27 AM	#32
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	The first 10% were a definite drudgery for me. I'm still only 20% in. Its going to take me a while. The writing is so small in the copy I got from the library.

11-26-2014, 03:52 PM	#33
Hamlet53 Nameless Being	So I am about a quarter of the way through this and I am really enjoying this. I'll mention that my library informed me that the Lacson-Locsin translation I wanted will not be available. So I obtained the Kindle version of the Guerrero translation. So I find Rizal's sarcastic wit worthy of Johnathan Swift. Spoiler: That he was at peace with God cannot be doubted; it was almost dogma. There are no reasons to be on bad terms with the good God when one is well-off, has never had any dealings with Him, and has never lent Him money. Capitan Tiago had never addressed himself to God in his prayers, not even in his greatest difficulties; he was rich, and he let his money pray for him. God has created (he would have argued) aloof and powerful priests to say masses and prayers of intercession, while, as for novenas and rosaries, He had, in His infinite mercy, created for the benefit of the rich, needy substitutes who, for a peso, were quite capable of saying even sixteen decades of the Holy Rosary in a row and of reading all possible prayer books, including, at a suitable increase in fee, even the Bible in Hebrew. If in times of acute distress Capitan Tiago needed divine help, and could not put his hands on even one Chinese red candle, he called on the saints, both male and female, to whom he had special devotion, making them uncounted promises to persuade them that what he wanted from them was good. But most of his promises he made to the Virgin of Antipolo, Our Lady of Peace and Happy Voyage. What is more, he kept these promises, which is more than can be said of his behaviour toward certain saints of lower category, with whom he was rather remiss and even ungentlemanly; indeed, sometimes, having got what he wanted, he put them out of his mind. It is equally true, of course, that he never bothered them again either. Capitan Tiago felt that there were many unemployed saints in the calendar who did not know what to do with themselves in Heaven. But to the Virgin of Antipolo he attributed a greater power and efficacy than all the other Virgins, put together, whether they carried silver sceptres, or a Child Jesus dressed, or a Child Jesus naked, or scapulars, or rosaries, or girdles. Perhaps this was due to the Virgin of Antipolo’s reputation for severity and concern for her prestige. According to the sacristan of her shrine, the Virgin, whom he claimed to be an enemy of the photographic arts, turned black as ebony when she was displeased, unlike other Virgins who were more indulgent and had softer hearts. It is well-known that certain people love an absolute monarch better than a constitutional one, and for proof there is the difference in fortunes between Louis XIV and Louis XVI, or Philip II and Amadeo I. For this reason, perhaps, people went on their knees up the length of the Virgin’s shrine to the foot of her altar, even Chinese unbelievers and haughty Spaniards. What defied explanation was why, for all that, the custodians of the shrine sometimes ran off to America and got married on the money offered to the fearsome Virgin. It goes on like this for a few more pages.

11-28-2014, 08:40 AM	#34
fantasyfan Wizard Posts: 1,368 Karma: 26886344 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE	I look forward to this book, but it will be a while before I am able to finish it. Fortunately the excellent comments submitted by other members will be quite helpful. 😉😊

12-01-2014, 10:18 AM	#37
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	I finished on the weekend. This book suffered from the wrong time for me to read it. I have read a lot of historical this year with my challenge. This didn't me much I didn't see coming and told me in a long-winded way. It was an okay read. I am glad I read it, but it didn't captivate me much. If I had read this in January or February my feelings might have been different.

12-02-2014, 04:54 AM	#38
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	I'm a bit over 50% of the way through and must admit I'm still finding it a plod. I find it a bit disjointed and am not sure if there's a problem with the translation, or if it's because Rizal was just trying to make political comment disguised as a novel, rather than being a good novelist. I'm looking forward to hearing what others have to say - is it just HIMS and me, or do others have problems too? Bookworm_Girl and Hamlet, are you both still enjoying it?

12-02-2014, 09:21 AM	#40
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	^I think I will look back more fondly on the book than I judge it now. I'll again say that I think timing means more than the book in a lot of cases for me. I am glad I read it, but maybe I was more hankering to read In the Shadow of the Banyan or the Stones Cry Out.

12-02-2014, 03:29 PM	#41
sun surfer languorous autodidact ✦ Posts: 4,235 Karma: 44637926 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: smiling with the rising sun Device: onyx boox poke 2 colour, kindle voyage	I wonder what the random dashes in the text are for, at least in the Augenbram edition. Are they in the original text? They seem nonsensical but perhaps there's an explanation eluding me.

12-07-2014, 07:24 AM	#42
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Well, I have finally managed to finish it. I didn't read the introduction or do any background research because I decided that it had to stand or fall as a literary novel, rather than as an important book because of its reflections of the troubled past of the Philippines. For me it didn't do well in the literary stakes. I found it very disjointed, lurching from one situation to another, and then with no more information (for example about Basilio and his brother) for a few hundred pages. Maybe Rizal needed a good editor. It's always hard to know how much of the problem lies with the translation. But assuming that the flow (or lack of it) reflects the original, then I don't think my difficulties with it can be laid at the translator's door. issybird, I saw on Goodreads that you gave it four stars, and will be really interested to hear what you have to say about it, especially as it was your nomination. Sorry I didn't like it better.

03-17-2015, 05:28 PM	#43
paola Wizard Posts: 2,824 Karma: 5843878 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: UK Device: Pocketbook Pro 903, (beloved Pocketbook 360 RIP), Kobo Mini, Kobo Aura	[QUOTE=Bookpossum;2996506] For me it didn't do well in the literary stakes. I found it very disjointed, lurching from one situation to another, and then with no more information (for example about Basilio and his brother) for a few hundred pages. Maybe Rizal needed a good editor.[QUOTE] same for me - it did take me forever to finish it, but for reasons others than a "plodding through" feeling - various domestic distractions meant I've been having ridiculously little time to read, and my brain is paying for it Or to be more precise, I found the first three or four chapters slow going, but then I got in the rhythm. So though I found it invaluable as a witness of the time, place and culture - and similarly to Mishima and his tetralogy, knowing Rizal's endt made reading it all the more poignant. As a literary text, however, I did not enjoy it very much. It is a project book, aimed at firing people up, so some black and white was in order. Still, the almost saintly purity of various of the characters (not just the two main protagonists, but several others, like Tasio, Elias, and so on) did irk me quite often. Nevertheless I have enjoyed reading it, and is one of those books that I keep thinking back to long after I've finished it.

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