Is this a pirate site?

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I have another one for you: I took that file showing the details of that great invention of yours and made a copy. No problem, you still have your copy -- no theft, right?

No theft, right.
It can be a lot of other things, from privacy violation, to plagiarism, to patent infringement to a lot of other things, but not theft (unless you stole a CD-ROM of mine: that's theft!).

A killer steals life, but he commits murder, not theft.
A raper steals pleasure and virginity, but he commits rape and assault, not theft.
A pedophile steals innocence, but he does not commit theft.
A goon steals beauty, but he's no thief.
A kindapper steals people, will he be tried for theft?

No way.
To call those acts "theft" is just plain wrong.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

The first is illegal of course but maybe you should take the time to consider why. Notice or not someone would be deprived of the use of their car, there would be increased wear and tear and hey did you bother to refill the gas tank? Now on the other hand if you built an exact copy of the car and drove off who is harmed? But since you like to mislabel things I propose we say you raped the car you entered and used it without consent so you'd be a rapist.

The second I'm not aware of being unlawful it just makes you... I could use some rude words but why bother, you'd be just like most other people working in offices these days.

Better to call it like it is. The law is an imperfect implementation of what is right and wrong. As things change it becomes less perfect.

P.S. I guess if you can have sex with a car you might call it rape.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Format C:

I never said I wrote "Under the Dome".

But, if I did, would you rather call it "theft" or "plagiarism"?

And again, I'm sorry for my bad English. I swear I didn't know that "it's a felony different from theft" actually means "no harm is done". Now I know it, thank you.



Even for your car trip there are other names for what you did. In my country it sounds like "unauthorized temporary possession", which is not theft, and is given, when proved, different penalties...

Now you are introducing a very different word into the discussion "a felony different from theft". Yes, I could agree with that. I said theft comes close, I didn't say it covers it exactly. It is a different type of theft, a theft were someone did not steal a physical object, but the exclusive (I am disregarding fair use exceptions for the moment) right to create copies of a file. But since you agree that it should be a felony, why putting all this effort into finding a special word for it?

[Ben Thornton]

It seems to me that it is a mistake to label something as a felony (which means a serious crime) if it would make the majority into criminals. Laws should be there to serve society, not to criminalise everyone.

In my view, some unauthorised copying is wrong (and some isn't) - but none of it seems like theft to me at all. On balance, I think that the law is biased too much in the favour of large corporations - as in so many areas. I would suggest that the law needs relaxing (in most countries), not tightening up to pick on individuals who copy a few files. How do their crimes compare with, say, the financial crimes perpetrated by corporations over the last decade which have resulted in the current recession, and for which they are, by and large, escaping not only unpunished, but in many cases massively rewarded?

[Pablo]

We should start a new thread and ask mods to make it sticky: Is Piracy theft?
So everybody can say why (s)he thinks Piracy is (isn't) theft, thus preventing this topic to pop up in every thread.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

It seems to me that it is a mistake to label something as a felony (which means a serious crime) if it would make the majority into criminals. Laws should be there to serve society, not to criminalise everyone.

In my view, some unauthorised copying is wrong (and some isn't) - but none of it seems like theft to me at all. On balance, I think that the law is biased too much in the favour of large corporations - as in so many areas. I would suggest that the law needs relaxing (in most countries), not tightening up to pick on individuals who copy a few files. How do their crimes compare with, say, the financial crimes perpetrated by corporations over the last decade which have resulted in the current recession, and for which they are, by and large, escaping not only unpunished, but in many cases massively rewarded?

That is a matter for a completely different discussion. But I don't think somebody else's wrongdoing should be an excuse to justify one's own.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That is a matter for a completely different discussion. But I don't think somebody else's wrongdoing should be an excuse to justify one's own.

The Lemming Factor.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Pablo

We should start a new thread and ask mods to make it sticky: Is Piracy theft?
So everybody can say why (s)he thinks Piracy is (isn't) theft, thus preventing this topic to pop up in every thread.

So long as we don't prejudge the issue by calling it "piracy"!

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Not sure if the same was true of the older consoles.

Oh yes. PS1's, PS2's and Gamecubes have all been used (Maybe others, but I don't remember reading about them).

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Hey, I took your car for a spin and returned it before you noticed!

TWOC (a criminal offence, for a tangible object, not Theft.

And I took that idea you had at work and said it was mine.

Misappropriation of a trade secret (a civil offence, for an intangible), not Theft.

I have another one for you: I took that file showing the details of that great invention of yours and made a copy. No problem, you still have your copy -- no theft, right?

Patent Fraud (a civil offence, for an intangible), not Theft.

See, there's several patterns here....now, seems books are intangible...

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by TGS

So long as we don't prejudge the issue by calling it "piracy"!

Ok, let's call it "Is sharing copyrighted material theft?".

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That is a matter for a completely different discussion. But I don't think somebody else's wrongdoing should be an excuse to justify one's own.

I'm not trying to justify anything. As I said, I think that some copyright infringement is wrong - the clearest case for me being: copying a book by a living author that's available digitally, rather than buying it, when you don't have a copy in another format.

What I was reacting against was the label "felony" being banded about in a discussion about copyright infringement, which seems to me to be disproportionate - hence my comparison with some other things that are worth getting upset about.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Ok, let's call it "Is sharing copyrighted material theft?".

Let's lynch the librarians!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

It seems to me that it is a mistake to label something as a felony (which means a serious crime) if it would make the majority into criminals. Laws should be there to serve society, not to criminalise everyone.

Saying that something shouldn't be regarded as a crime, merely because lots of people do it, seems like a rather poor excuse. I suspect, for example, that the overwhelming majority of people who hold a UK driving licence get a speeding ticket at some point during their driving career; should we de-criminalise speeding simply because a lot of people do it?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by TGS

Do we really think that unauthorized downloading and distribution of digital material is anything like commandeering a ship by the use of force? If we don't why do we insist on using the same word for the activity? It makes me wonder what rhetorical purpose it serves, and whose interest that rhetorical purpose promotes. It is of course a metaphor, but we all seem to be buying into this metaphor, and the metaphors we choose matter.

I'll let you take a guess as to whose interests such terminology serves. It shouldn't be hard to figure out though. The exact same people that want you to think "copyright infringement" is "theft".

Such intentional mis-use of terminology is on purpose. Associating copyright infringement with "piracy" and "theft" serves their goals. It's unfortunate that many people fall for the rhetoric.