Unboxing iRex 800 and first impressions

[Jumpn Jack Flash]

Any sign of the webkit port on the device

[badbob001]

Originally Posted by Jumpn Jack Flash

Any sign of the webkit port on the device

I wonder if out of the box the device can open a html document or be tricked into opening one from an embedded link.

[Mr. Goodbar]

I think we also need to keep in mind that we on this board do not represent the typical consumer user. We might all keep hundreds of books ready to read and want flexibility with different sorting methods, however many if not most of the ereader users probably keep a handful of books. Even a couple of hundred are more than manageable with title, author and most recent sort options. I know a ton of people who are now getting ereaders and most of them only have a handful of books on the device and they think I'm nuts with having a few hundred.

Irex have stated numerous times that this device is targeted at the same market that Sony, Amazon and B&N are going after and we know how they currently view folders. A flat structure with a couple of different sort options and a search feature is probably more comparable to how people would store their paper books. I doubt few sort them by category.

I'm not defending irex's decision or promoting one approach over the other, just pointing out that we are probably not the typical mass market user and that a more complex, but flexible approach could actually be a negative to the mass market.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I think we also need to keep in mind that we on this board do not represent the typical consumer user. We might all keep hundreds of books ready to read and want flexibility with different sorting methods, however many if not most of the ereader users probably keep a handful of books. Even a couple of hundred are more than manageable with title, author and most recent sort options. I know a ton of people who are now getting ereaders and most of them only have a handful of books on the device and they think I'm nuts with having a few hundred.

Irex have stated numerous times that this device is targeted at the same market that Sony, Amazon and B&N are going after and we know how they currently view folders. A flat structure with a couple of different sort options and a search feature is probably more comparable to how people would store their paper books. I doubt few sort them by category.

I'm not defending irex's decision or promoting one approach over the other, just pointing out that we are probably not the typical mass market user and that a more complex, but flexible approach could actually be a negative to the mass market.

I agree. They've said to me before that one of their goals with the DR800 was to come up with a better/simpler UI and improve upon the DR1000's interface based on feedback they'd been getting.

This is probably one of those areas where a specific design may make sense for a high end user or the business market, but a simpler one would be a better idea for general consumers.

Would the "average Joe" want his books displayed in a hierarchical structure where he had to navigate through the sub-layers to find things, or would he want them all presented in a single sortable list? A power user would probably prefer the folder structure, an "average Joe" would probably prefer the sortable list. The iLiad and DR1000 were aimed at one market, this is aimed at another.

Personally, I've got a NAS RAID array on my home LAN that has my eBook archive on it. That's where I really want the hierarchical structure. I typically only keep eBooks I'm currently reading, or expect to read next, on my device at any one time. When I'm done reading I delete it from the device. I do store them in a hierarchical structure on the device too, but I don't keep enough eBooks on it where that would really be necessary. A sortable list would be fine with me.

[pilotbob]

I have to admit as a developer sometimes we make stuff to complex and give users too many options. This also makes the software harder to maintain and enhance. Many times that gold plating that we do just confuses customers and makes support's job much harder.

Although, I think most people understand a hierarchical folder system....

BOb

[badbob001]

I see folderless interfaces on the Kindle and iPod because those devices are designed for purchased items that are pre-tagged with the correct metadata. On the DR800S, with no ties to any storefront, it'll most be for user supplied documents that are likely not have all the needed metadata, if any, and most things will end up in one big heap.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by badbob001

I see folderless interfaces on the Kindle and iPod because those devices are designed for purchased items that are pre-tagged with the correct metadata. On the DR800S, with no ties to any storefront, it'll most be for user supplied documents that are likely not have all the needed metadata, if any, and most things will end up in one big heap.

Correct metadata? I just deleted about 1/3rd of my ePUB and PDF files from ADE. Legally purchased from various sources. Having "cool" author names like "some guy", "24/7", "company name" and things like that. About 1/3rd of my books (no matter what format - maybe with the exception of Microsoft lit which usually seems more carefully prepared) I have to strip from DRM and manually adjust metadata in calibre. Very often, I get worse quality in purchased books than in pirated ones.
That's one of the reasons why I like iLiad that much. I can change those flaws directly on the reader.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by badbob001

I see folderless interfaces on the Kindle and iPod because those devices are designed for purchased items that are pre-tagged with the correct metadata. On the DR800S, with no ties to any storefront, it'll most be for user supplied documents that are likely not have all the needed metadata, if any, and most things will end up in one big heap.

And btw: Even without 3G or WiFi, iRex 800 in its settings is prepared for B&N PDBs (credit card nr. and user name for decryption), so you kind of have a link to a storefront.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Personally, I've got a NAS RAID array on my home LAN that has my eBook archive on it. That's where I really want the hierarchical structure. I typically only keep eBooks I'm currently reading, or expect to read next, on my device at any one time. When I'm done reading I delete it from the device. I do store them in a hierarchical structure on the device too, but I don't keep enough eBooks on it where that would really be necessary. A sortable list would be fine with me.

So even though you are fine with the "average Joe" user approach (no hierarchy), you organize your files on a "nas raid array" at home. Do you see a contradiction here?
Seriously, I was hoping for a semi-decent upgrade for the iLiad. Not a device with a flat folder structure and no annotation support forthcoming. And no, my iliad still works fine, but I'm not going to be recommending that device to anyone, given that there's no longer any support for it, nor very much by way of an active development community.
I've got at least 100 journal articles for 4-5 different courses I'm taking on it at any given time.. Without a way to sort these hierarchically.. Well.
Anyway, why does the world only consist of "average joes" and "the power users"? Seriously. A device with annotation support is meant for a slightly different audience than a device without it. People who don't annotate can get by without a pen just fine, so why would they want to buy a "penabled" wacom device? What's the added value there?
And similarly, people who annotate and write on stuff a lot probably have 1. more files, and 2. a desire for more sorting options.
I am entirely unable to connect a bunch of platitudes about "what joe sixpack wants" together in such a way that this makes sense to me.

where a specific design may make sense for a high end user or the business market, but a simpler one would be a better idea for general consumers.

A simpler device=a device without wacom tablet functionality. A more complex device used to be the iLiad, but that's no longer supported, or the DR1000, but the battery life there still seems to be something of a joke unless you are using it in an office, with a power cord. All Irex keeps doing is alienating their potential customers, who are willing to shell out that €150 more for extra functionality. Why tell them that they're really just "average joes" who want no folder hierarchies?

[catharsis]

wouldn't it have been easier just to implement the folder structure, set it inactive by default for the "average Joe" and put it as an option in "Settings" so more advanced users could use it? that's how compromise between geeks and "average Joe's" is best made.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by catharsis

wouldn't it have been easier just to implement the folder structure, set it inactive by default for the "average Joe" and put it as an option in "Settings" so more advanced users could use it? that's how compromise between geeks and "average Joe's" is best made.

Every setting you add multiplies your QA matrix by the number of options this setting has.

So, "easier" is NO... you have just multiplied the testing effort by 2.

BOb

[Kolenka]

After looking a bit at this thing, I'd sure love to put it through it's paces myself... (it was one I considered along with the 900, but dismissed it as vaporware)

But at the prices they want for the EU version, I'll just have to wait until the US model comes out to look at it.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

After looking a bit at this thing, I'd sure love to put it through it's paces myself... (it was one I considered along with the 900, but dismissed it as vaporware)

But at the prices they want for the EU version, I'll just have to wait until the US model comes out to look at it.

Price definitely is an issue. I start to like iRex 800. The display quality really is convincing. And it's fast.
But being 25% to 40% (depending on VAT and similar issues) more expensive than Sony 900 is hard to explain. Well, probably it's easy to explain: Sony has 734 diverse revenue streams and certainly makes significant profits apart from their hardware with licenses and content. But still, from a customer point of view...

[Kolenka]

My understanding is that the 3G-enabled version will land in the US for 400 USD, which puts it at the same price as the Sony. 600 USD + 70 USD shipping for the non-3G version does make it rather unappetizing, yes.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

My understanding is that the 3G-enabled version will land in the US for 400 USD, which puts it at the same price as the Sony. 600 USD + 70 USD shipping for the non-3G version does make it rather unappetizing, yes.

Let's see, whether they really can make the $ 400. Would be kind of frustrating for Europeans. € 500 w/o 3G vs. $ 400 w 3G = about 40% price difference. From a European company! But price aside: Good choice!