The Growing Problem of Death in SF TV and Movies and yes books

[kennyc]

The growing problem with death in science fiction movies and TV shows

James Murphy

Doctor Who. Buffy. Lord Of The Rings. Torchwood. The Matrix. Being Human. Are they all contributors to the lessening impact of death in science fiction movies and TV shows?

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/8466..._tv_shows.html

[The Terminator]

"The Matrix" the best movie ever made.......

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by THE TERMINATOR

"The Matrix" the best movie ever made.......

Right up till the Superman bit at the end, I thought that was cheezy and really ruined it.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by Mortis

Right up till the Superman bit at the end, I thought that was cheezy and really ruined it.

Meh, it was a fun throwaway gag.
What ruined it was the "sequels". (The way they were done, not the idea of a sequel itself. And of course that whole "humans as batteries" idea"...)

To stay remotely on topic: I'm not sure what the article tries to say (I admit I only skimmed it), but I don't think it's really new or surprising.

Comics have done it before - there's a proverb I've heard about Marvel comics "No one stays dead, except Uncle ben and Bucky". (Though that has been disproven too, AFAIK.)

How many books/movies/whatever do you know where the good guys actually lose?
The closest I can think of right now is "They live". The good guys win, but die doing so.

[rhadin]

I'm surprised we haven't heard about death panels in conjunction with all of these programs that contribute to making death more bearable by vaccinating viewers against becoming overwrought at the demise. Hmmm, could these programs be violating the anti-assisted suicide laws by making viewers more callous -- just like has occurred with violence and "foul" language?

[Mortis]

Off Topic, sorry

I'm all for removing the violence from TV. What I don't get is parents that have an issue letting their kids see a little nudity but don't have a problem with excessive violence.

[DixieGal]

It's just TV. A TV death is about as interesting to me as seeing Pia voted off last week. In other words, "Oh well, there goes another one. Next?"

EDIT: But I'm weird, so never follow my advice. I watch the Olympics to see the gymnasts "bust old rusty" and Idol to see them totally ruin a song. BTW, that Lauren child is overdoing the crocodile tears with her weekly couch meltdowns.

[Solitaire1]

Cyberman wrote as part of a post:

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

How many books/movies/whatever do you know where the good guys actually lose?
The closest I can think of right now is "They live". The good guys win, but die doing so.

One that comes to mind is the one-shot graphic novel "Earth 2." Part of the story takes place on Earth in the Anti-Matter Universe. The operating logic in the Anti-Matter Universe is that evil always wins. At the request of Lex Luthor (from the Anti-Matter Universe), the Justice League travels to that universe to try and overthrow the Crime Syndicate (their Anti-Matter Universe counterparts) and to help the people there, but their efforts are doomed to failure.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Mortis

Off Topic, sorry

I'm all for removing the violence from TV. What I don't get is parents that have an issue letting their kids see a little nudity but don't have a problem with excessive violence.

me neither ... it's a strange attitude.

[sakura-panda]

Originally Posted by Mortis

Off Topic, sorry

I'm all for removing the violence from TV. What I don't get is parents that have an issue letting their kids see a little nudity but don't have a problem with excessive violence.

I guess I'm the opposite parent -- I don't care if my kids watch a bedroom scene on network tv (although I'm not thrilled by it either), but I will actively turn off something that shows blood, a gun pointed at a person, or a realistically violent scene.

My favorite type of show is the cop/detective shows and there is *always* blood and a dead body at the beginning somewhere. Part of the reason I am so backlogged is that I can only watch these shows after the kids have gone to bed.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by Mortis

What I don't get is parents that have an issue letting their kids see a little nudity but don't have a problem with excessive violence.

I probably posted this on this forum some time before, but it's an eternal classic that just has to be posted again and again:

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050731

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

One that comes to mind is the one-shot graphic novel "Earth 2." Part of the story takes place on Earth in the Anti-Matter Universe. The operating logic in the Anti-Matter Universe is that evil always wins.

Hm.
Interesting. But since it happend in another universe - is it real?

Similar to how video games are age-rated (this might not apply everywhere, and perhaps it's outdated, these numbers are arbitrary because I don't remember the exact values): Enemies have: Red blood -> 18+; Green blood -> 16+.

The violence is the same, but because it's not against humans it's suddenly OK, or less evil.

[Mike Cooley]

I think it completely takes the drama out when you realize anyone who dies
can come back at any time.

Death is supposed to be dramatic. And final.

But I suppose it's inconvenient to get new actors for your TV show every week

--Mike

[Freeshadow]

its the same in games - it's only a minority willing to acceppt permadeath like in roguelikes

[Solitaire1]

Cyberman tM wrote (and included the following) as part of a post:

Originally Posted by Solitaire1:
One that comes to mind is the one-shot graphic novel "Earth 2." Part of the story takes place on Earth in the Anti-Matter Universe. The operating logic in the Anti-Matter Universe is that evil always wins.

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Hm.
Interesting. But since it happend in another universe - is it real?

It's as real as the regular DC universe, which is just one of the 53 universes (52 positive matter and one anti-matter). Each universe has aspects that set it apart from the others, such time flowing at different rates (one Earth is currently in the late 19th Century, while another is in the Industrial Revolution). For more info, see this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._worlds#The_52 (Note: This page also contains information on many universes that are no longer in continuity, "The 52" refers to the current DC multiverse).

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by Mike Cooley

I think it completely takes the drama out when you realize anyone who dies
can come back at any time.

Death is supposed to be dramatic. And final.

But I suppose it's inconvenient to get new actors for your TV show every week

--Mike

One option that the series "Doctor Who" has employed is regeneration, where a new actor can take over the role without the character dying (the current Doctor is his 10th regeneration). There's still some drama since there's no guarantee that the Doctor will survive regeneration (he barely survived his 5th regeneration) and he is limited to 12 regenerations.

Although it wasn't a death, in the series "Bewitched" they brought in a new actor (Dick Sargent) to take over the role of Darren Stevens when the original actor (Dick York) was no longer able to continue in the role. They simply transitioned from one actor to another without comment.