Best device for making annotations ?

[KevinBurke]

Ok, so what device or devices is/are best or better for making annotations ? The Sony PRS-600/700/900 or some of the offerings from Irex under the Iliad line of products ? I'm guessing some of the Irex offerings are better for annotations. I never tried either in person. I simply don't have access to them to compare. Any expert comments are appreciated thanks.

[HarryT]

For free-hand annotations, the Sony devices are excellent. For typed annotations, the Kindle has the edge, with its keyboard (although it can't annotation PDF files). Others worth considering are the Neo/Onyx.

The iRex DR800 range has no annotation capability at all at present. The DR1000 does, but only for PDF. Bear in mind, though, that iRex in currently in administration, and their future is rather uncertain.

[vxf]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

Ok, so what device or devices is/are best or better for making annotations ? The Sony PRS-600/700/900 or some of the offerings from Irex under the Iliad line of products ? I'm guessing some of the Irex offerings are better for annotations. I never tried either in person. I simply don't have access to them to compare. Any expert comments are appreciated thanks.

I use a PRS900 for annotations. It seems to work well - you can view annotations on your PC via SONY's software or export them to RTF.

The device slows down if you have tons of notes (I had about 600 annotated PDFs on a 16gb SD card and the device got REALLY slow) - but you can archive everything on your PC and only carry around what you need.

Highlighted sections can also be exported (although with character limits... not sure about the exact number...). Notes can be handwritten or you can use an on-screen keyboard.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with Irex, so I can't compare. But, from what I hear, Irex is bankrupt.... so that might solve your dilemma.

[KevinBurke]

Originally Posted by vxf

I use a PRS900 for annotations. It seems to work well - you can view annotations on your PC via SONY's software or export them to RTF.

The device slows down if you have tons of notes (I had about 600 annotated PDFs on a 16gb SD card and the device got REALLY slow) - but you can archive everything on your PC and only carry around what you need.

Highlighted sections can also be exported (although with character limits... not sure about the exact number...). Notes can be handwritten or you can use an on-screen keyboard.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with Irex, so I can't compare. But, from what I hear, Irex is bankrupt.... so that might solve your dilemma.

Yeah, Irex is bankrupt but I can still get some of their devices on Ebay and such. The prs900 does seem like the way to go though. I always liked the SONY line except the 700. Maybe soon I will be dedicated to using only SONY devices . I don't like the Kindle and I think the Ipad, without E-ink, is a joke etc.. I imagine I can, probably, view technical math documents in PDF format better on the Sony 900's screen compared to the smaller screened 300 and 600. Although technical PDFs seems to be or have been Irex's bread and butter I've heard.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

Yeah, Irex is bankrupt but I can still get some of their devices on Ebay and such. The prs900 does seem like the way to go though. I always liked the SONY line except the 700. Maybe soon I will be dedicated to using only SONY devices . I don't like the Kindle and I think the Ipad, without E-ink, is a joke etc.. I imagine I can, probably, view technical math documents in PDF format better on the Sony 900's screen compared to the smaller screened 300 and 600. Although technical PDFs seems to be or have been Irex's bread and butter I've heard.

The iPad is a joke? Why do you say that? The iPad is perhaps the most versatile reader around at the moment from the viewpoint of the number of different reading applications available for it. For reading and annotating PDFs it's especially good. The screen is superb. I'd honestly suggest that you use one before writing it off in that way.

[KevinBurke]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The iPad is a joke? Why do you say that? The iPad is perhaps the most versatile reader around at the moment from the viewpoint of the number of different reading applications available for it. For reading and annotating PDFs it's especially good. The screen is superb. I'd honestly suggest that you use one before writing it off in that way.

Forbes gives 5 reasons why the Ipad is a joke compared to the Amazon Kindle, for instance, but the main one that stands out to me is this one :

"--IPad's LCD vs. Kindle's ugly, practical screen

Sure, the E-Ink that the Kindle's black and grey screen uses is likely years away from the video and color capabilities of the iPad. But for reading, it works--in some ways better than the iPad's LCD screen. The Kindle's passive, reflective screen technology uses only ambient light and is readable in bright sunlight. Amazon Chief Jeff Bezos has described reading on an LCD backlit screen, by contrast, as "shining a flashlight in your eyes." That's fine for composing an e-mail, browsing photos or surfing blogs, but doesn't work as well for hours of immersive reading. "

http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/27/ama...rk-kindle.html

Sorry, but no serious reader of ebooks can consider an LCD based reader as anything but an utter complete joke. So, yes, if you intend to read full books, made up of hundreds of pages, like I do, the Ipad is a shiny, flashy, multimedia piece of crap. I can't see how ebook readers can take it seriously since it can't compete on the same level. The thing is obviously not made for book reading but for multimedia and stuff. Steve Jobs' outlook is or was that "no one reads books anymore". That idiot couldn't be anymore wrong. Most of us here are a living testament against that proposition. I'm currently reading a 281 page book on my prs-505 and just finished a 500 some page one. The next book I plan to read is a practical one over 1,000 pages. Try doing that on an Ipad and you will quickly change your tune.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

Sorry, but no serious reader of ebooks can consider an LCD based reader as anything but an utter complete joke.

Having been a reader of eBooks since approximately 1991, and having a personal collection of around 20,000 eBooks, I would consider myself to be a reasonably "serious reader of eBooks". As you can see from my profile on the left, I have numerous reading devices, both eInk and LCD, so I am in a good position to compare the technologies. Both have their pros and cons.

eInk is certainly better for outdoor reading (you can't read a backlit LCD screen outdoors at all), and when I do read outdoors, naturally I use an eInk device (the BeBook Neo is my personal favourite).

For indoor use, however, the iPad has numerous benefits. Instant page turns and annotation (the slow refresh rate of eInk leads to a somewhat annoying time lag of a fraction of a second when annotating a book), and a much, much wider range of software available.

I honestly have to say "don't knock it until you've tried it", and I'm not just speaking from 2nd hand reviews, but from 20-odd years of reading eBooks on everything from PDAs to eInk device to the iPad.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

Sorry, but no serious reader of ebooks can consider an LCD based reader as anything but an utter complete joke. So, yes, if you intend to read full books, made up of hundreds of pages, like I do, the Ipad is a shiny, flashy, multimedia piece of crap. I can't see how ebook readers can take it seriously since it can't compete on the same level. The thing is obviously not made for book reading but for multimedia and stuff. Steve Jobs' outlook is or was that "no one reads books anymore". That idiot couldn't be anymore wrong. Most of us here are a living testament against that proposition.

I'm also a very serious reader of ebooks, and I do consider a LCD based reader very handy. I don't use it outside, that's when I use my e-ink based device. I've always read from backlit devices, and always read from them very happily. I only bought the e-ink because the battery life is better and it's larger than my PDA (which was my primary reading device, it has a transflective LCD screen). Outside I now use my BeBook Mini (instead of my PDA), but in bed I always use my JE100 (with a transparent LCD screen).

Originally Posted by HarryT

eInk is certainly better for outdoor reading (you can't read a backlit LCD screen outdoors at all), and when I do read outdoors, naturally I use an eInk device (the BeBook Neo is my personal favourite).

Not entirely correct. You can read backlit screens outside, as long as they are transflective.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Not entirely correct. You can read backlit screens outside, as long as they are transflective.

Forgive me for being pedantic, but I stand by what I said. There's no such thing (to the best of my knowledge) as a backlit transflective LCD screen - all such screens (if lit at all) have side-lighting, not back lighting. A transflective screen is opaque (it works by reflecting light, hence the name) and so cannot be backlit.

The point I was making, however, was that backlit screens, such as the iPad, cannot be read outside in full sunlight.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Forgive me for being pedantic, but I stand by what I said. There's no such thing (to the best of my knowledge) as a backlit transflective LCD screen - all such screens (if lit at all) have side-lighting, not back lighting. A transflective screen is opaque (it works by reflecting light, hence the name) and so cannot be backlit.

The point I was making, however, was that backlit screens, such as the iPad, cannot be read outside in full sunlight.

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid_crystal_display

A transflective liquid crystal display is a liquid crystal display (LCD) that reflects and transmits light (transflective = transmissive + reflective). Under bright illumination (e.g. when exposed to daylight) the display acts mainly as a reflective display with the contrast being constant with illuminance. Only in dim and dark ambient situations an auxiliary transmissive backlight should be provided.

....

The essential component for a transflective LCD is the transflector, a polymer sheet that is reflecting and transmitting at the same time.

I think you're confused with reflective LCD's. Which, if they have light, have side-lighting because their back layer is not transparent.

transparent: back-lit, not readable outside
reflective: non-back-lit, perfect readable outside, but not in dark conditions (unless side-lights are available)
transflective: combination of transparent and reflective. Can use backlights, and has good contrast in light areas without backlight.

We have two PDA's at home, one has side-lighting, the other one hasn't. The side-light is on the transparent one, the transflective doesn't have side-lights. The difference is huge.


But the Ipad uses a transparent technology as transflective removes some colour clarity. And I think that the majority wants perfect colours instead of the ability to read outside...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I think you're confused with reflective LCD's. Which, if they have light, have side-lighting because their back layer is not transparent.

Yes, I am. Thank you for the correction.

[KevinBurke]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Having been a reader of eBooks since approximately 1991, and having a personal collection of around 20,000 eBooks, I would consider myself to be a reasonably "serious reader of eBooks". As you can see from my profile on the left, I have numerous reading devices, both eInk and LCD, so I am in a good position to compare the technologies. Both have their pros and cons.

eInk is certainly better for outdoor reading (you can't read a backlit LCD screen outdoors at all), and when I do read outdoors, naturally I use an eInk device (the BeBook Neo is my personal favourite).

For indoor use, however, the iPad has numerous benefits. Instant page turns and annotation (the slow refresh rate of eInk leads to a somewhat annoying time lag of a fraction of a second when annotating a book), and a much, much wider range of software available.

I honestly have to say "don't knock it until you've tried it", and I'm not just speaking from 2nd hand reviews, but from 20-odd years of reading eBooks on everything from PDAs to eInk device to the iPad.

Dude, you don't have a clue. You are no more qualified to comment than someone who has tried to read an ebook on a computer LCD screen and Phone LCD screen or PDA LCD screen and an e-ink reader like myself. It doesn't matter that I never owned an LCD based ereader. LCD is LCD and it can't compete with E-ink. If its LCD based it is a complete joke to serious book readers; if you don't think so you then you are an elementary sophomore reader rather than a serious analytical and syntopical (graduate level reader) reader. Sure the mechanics of of analytical and syntopical reading can be carried out, with lcd annotations and notes, but you just can't sustain long reading times on them for it to be practical enough. Maybe you are like a retarded chimpanzee with ADD, so you don't notice, since you probably have a short attention span. However, for us human non-retarded non-chimpanzees, without ADD, LCD is a joke for reading books. Outdoor or indoor LCD sucks for long reading times. It doesn't matter.However, retarded chimpanzees with ADD don't notice that and think it is good for indoor reading just not outside. Forbes magazine is shrewd in business matters, such as the ereader market demographic needs, and obviously knows what it is talking about. If Ereaders were all LCD and E-ink never existed then I would have never bought an ereader in the first place. I would have just read books on my laptop and desktop computer machines. Please get a clue.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

Sure the mechanics of of analytical and syntopical reading can be carried out, with lcd annotations, but you just can't sustain long reading times on them for it to be practical enough.

Define long reading times. I've emptied my PDA's battery several times in one sitting. And that's a battery life of 4-5 hours. When I'm reading in bed, I often plug in my device so I can keep reading on it...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

Dude, you don't have a clue. You are no more qualified to comment than someone who has tried to read an ebook on a computer LCD screen and Phone LCD screen or PDA LCD screen and an e-ink reader like myself. It doesn't matter that I never owned an LCD based ereader. LCD is LCD and it can't compete with E-ink. If its LCD based it is a complete joke to serious book readers; if you don't think so you then you are an elementary sophomore reader rather than a serious analytical and syntopical (graduate level reader) reader. Sure the mechanics of of analytical and syntopical reading can be carried out, with lcd annotations and notes, but you just can't sustain long reading times on them for it to be practical enough. Maybe you are like a retarded chimpanzee with ADD, so you don't notice, since you probably have a short attention span. However, for us human non-retarded non-chimpanzees, without ADD, LCD is a joke for reading books. Outdoor or indoor LCD sucks for long reading times. It doesn't matter.However, retarded chimpanzees with ADD don't notice that and think it is good for indoor reading just not outside. Forbes magazine is shrewd in business matters, such as the ereader market demographic needs, and obviously knows what it is talking about. If Ereaders were all LCD and E-ink never existed then I would have never bought an ereader in the first place. I would have just read books on my laptop and desktop computer machines. Please get a clue.

<shrug> Suit yourself. You asked for opinions; I've given you mine. Take it or leave it.

[KevinBurke]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Define long reading times. I've emptied my PDA's battery several times in one sitting. And that's a battery life of 4-5 hours. When I'm reading in bed, I often plug in my device so I can keep reading on it...

I have never personally read an entire book on an LCD screen-- although I seriously tried to. I have read entire books with e-ink technology though. I highly doubt I am the only one here who has had this same experience. Whether or not they will opine in this thread I dunno. Maybe people here are cliquish and won't stand up for a new user on the forum until they get to know them and accept them or whatnot. There is a reason why the Kindle, Sony and Barnes and Noble readers and all the major players are e-ink based and not LCD based. That reason is self-evident but you fools seem to try to want to argue against the self-evident.