The new PaperWhite snuck out! Incremental update

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by meeera

ZX81. There ya go.

(We also had a home Pong console...)

Commodore PET (8k, with the chicklet keyboard).



/JB

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Most apps where I store much data I don't use folder to organize data. It is too limiting. Tags and Search are much more efficient.

See Gmail and Evernote as two examples.

BOb

I think we get that, but it is not the point of that whole set of comments. Someone claimed that many early DOS PC users didn't understand the concept of directories/folders. GoSharks was meerly showing how a natural office metaphor was adapted for PCs, the idea of storing you office files within filing cabinets.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by jswinden

I think we get that, but it is not the point of that whole set of comments. Someone claimed that many early DOS PC users didn't understand the concept of directories/folders. GoSharks was meerly showing how a natural office metaphor was adapted for PCs, the idea of storing you office files within filing cabinets.

Natural or not many people found it confusing. And there were far few PC users anyway. The idea that we should be using folders because they've been around for a long time is based on a selective view of the past.

Originally Posted by latepaul

Natural or not many people found it confusing. And there were far few PC users anyway. The idea that we should be using folders because they've been around for a long time is based on a selective view of the past.

Well, perhaps I just worked with smarter and more intuitive people than you did because I don't recall many cases where people didn't figure it out fairly fast. DOS was a command line OS and the vast majority of people I knew were able to learn it quickly enough. And I'm talking about non-technical people as well as techies.

And I never said/wrote we should be using folders period, much less because they have been around a long time. I merely want to debunk the ridiculous notion that they are too complicated for the average eBook reader to understand.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Well, perhaps I just worked with smarter and more intuitive people than you did because I don't recall many cases where people didn't figure it out fairly fast.

I know many people who still can't figure out folders in Windows, and have no idea where their files are.

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

I know many people who still can't figure out folders in Windows, and have no idea where their files are.

Perhaps some of those who grew up using Windows and Mac OS never had to learn how to find their files. Poor babies! But those who used a command line OS had to understand directories/folders else they would not have been able to even run their applications. You had to know where the app was located in order to type in the command to execute it.

[Lyn2012]

It doesn't help that with each update of the OS, be it Mac or Windows, they make it harder and less transparent even to find out and navigate to where your files are located. It's one of the main reasons I don't have an iPad, I would love one but it has to run OSX not iOS - not likely I know, but I can dream!

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Lyn2012

It doesn't help that with each update of the OS, be it Mac or Windows, they make it harder and less transparent even to find out and navigate to where your files are located.

Didn't Apple stick all the pictures into a database, when you import them using iPhoto? At least some time ago, I was often asked where all the pictures went.

I hate that "just use an application, so you don't need to know where the files are"-mantra. It's BS. I want to be able to access the files even if I DON'T have an application. That's the main reason why I create backups using rsync (1:1 backups between folders) instead of a backup program that creates some huge, weird archive only readable by said program.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

I know many people who still can't figure out folders in Windows, and have no idea where their files are.

I know these people also. And copying or moving files between folders are also very hard for these people.

I would also say that for ebooks it is not so easy especially if the reader does not implement moving files. What happens with the saved metadata that are saved in a seperate file if you are going to use a computer to move files?

Also, folder organizations is not what people need or are used to from other applications.

In daily use for example the recently used view is much more useful than a folder view.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by latepaul

Natural or not many people found it confusing. And there were far few PC users anyway. The idea that we should be using folders because they've been around for a long time is based on a selective view of the past.

I don't think people found the actual concept of folders - even nested folders - confusing. I think what they found confusing were: (1) finding things in folders that other people had organized (like, say, navigating around the 1,000+ folders that install with Office); and (2) things where folders are used outside the office metaphor (you need save in a file in the same directory; the config.sys file needs to be in the same folder as the program; this data can only be put in a folder with this path).

I really don't think that folders work well for e-books, though; they are too inflexible. You get Science Fiction -- Atwood -- Handmaid's Tale...but if you want some of her other works, you have to go to Feminism -- Atwood -- Edible Woman. This makes it inconvenient if you want to see everything by one author who crosses genres - and the more granularity you want, the more difficult it becomes. And even in the above example, the "Feminism" folder would exclude "Handmaid's Tale" because it was in SF.

With collections (tags/labels/etc.) you can put the book in as many collections as you want - Feminism, SF, Dystopia, 1980's, Atwood, Canadian, Religion, 20th C, etc.

[Katsunami]

I store all my music in folders like this:

Music\Artist\Album [Folk]\Disc 1-2\01 - Title.

The only exception are Various Artists albums:

Music\Various Artists\Album [Folk]\Disc 1-4\01 - Artist - Title.

Of course, I could just create one folder of thousands of songs, and just rely on the tags within the files, using a music application, following the "you don't need to know where the files are"-philosophy.

However, if something ever goes wrong with the tags in all of my music (which is EASILY possible, using a powerful application such as Foobar; hitting the wrong button with all music selected), I can extract all information I need (want) out of that folder structure with two runs of a tagging application: once for all artists, once for the Various Artists.

After FooBar or any other decent audio player reads the files, it'll build a library on the basis of tags, which allows one to find any combination of songs that is wanted.

I'm (re)building my EPUB library in the same sort of way:

EBooks\Lastname, Firstname\Series\Lastname, Firstname - Series [Index] - Title.

If the book is not in a series, I omit the Series folder and Series and Index in the file name. The reason why I doubled up Lastname, Firstname, Series and Index in the filename is because a book can sometimes be alone, outside of the series (for example, on my desktop, if I'm fixing something, or on my reader), which never happens with the music. The songs are always part of an album.

[Josieb1]

I love folders, everything on my PC is in Folders and Sub Folders. I use folders on my Paperwhite and just purchased a an old Sony PRS 650 specifically for my thousand fanfic stories so when I load them they are shown in the Calibre Tags which appear as Collections, as every story and book is properly tagged in Calibre into its genre.

I don't need to tag by author, it's genres I need. And the source document/ebook is located in a folder on my PC that matches the a calibre tag. With 4500 books in Calibre I couldn't work in any other way.

[Josieb1]

Hubby has 8 pages of folders on his Paperwhite. I had to set them up, and move every book he had into he correct folder when he switched from a Kindle Keyboard, and every book he buys I move into the correct folder as soon as they download as all his books are on his Kindle.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by jswinden

And I never said/wrote we should be using folders period, much less because they have been around a long time. I merely want to debunk the ridiculous notion that they are too complicated for the average eBook reader to understand.

I never said that you did. However it was mentioned earlier in the thread and it sparked my initial contribution.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by tompe

In daily use for example the recently used view is much more useful than a folder view.

Except for books, I rarely want to see what I used most recently.

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

I really don't think that folders work well for e-books, though; they are too inflexible.

Calibre has all of mine in folders.