The 'ebooks are not transferable' issue...

ficbot · 03-20-2009, 12:16 AM

Just wondering for all the people who say ebooks are not transferable, what do you think about this scenario?

Let's say you have a device and you sell it. For example, I had an eBookwise and it has some books on it that can ONLY be read on that one machine due to the sucky DRM (there were two books I bought before I realized this) I sold the eBookwise and left the books on there. Fair? No chance I kept a copy because they are not readable on anything but that machine...

Another scenario. Let's say you have an account at Fictionwise, and you use it to buy books for a certain device. Then you sell the device and no longer read ebooks. Meanwhile, your friend starts reading ebooks. Is it fair for you to turn over your password to her and let her have your books? How about if after you do this, she changes the password and you can't access the account anymore anyway?

I think both of these scenarios should be fair. And I think Fictionwise should give you an option to transfer books to another Fictionwise account. For example my sister never uses her account anymore, so I think she should be able to transfer the ebooks to my account if she wanted to.

HarryT · 03-20-2009, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

Another scenario. Let's say you have an account at Fictionwise, and you use it to buy books for a certain device. Then you sell the device and no longer read ebooks. Meanwhile, your friend starts reading ebooks. Is it fair for you to turn over your password to her and let her have your books?

Clearly not, because you have agreed not to do this at the time that you bought the books. If these terms were not acceptable to you, you should not have bought the books in the first place.

dragonbone · 03-20-2009, 05:48 AM

I may be wrong, but I thought that you can have several devices on one account. Is this for the Sony Reader?

ErwinOtten · 03-20-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbone

I may be wrong, but I thought that you can have several devices on one account. Is this for the Sony Reader?

You can, but YOU have to own all those devices. I have for instance a PID for the mobipocket-reader on my laptop and a PID for my Cybook.

dragonbone · 03-20-2009, 06:06 AM

Well her sister owns the other one, so what's the big difference?
For example, I have several iPods registered on my iTunes account and they are owned by different members in my household. So we share audiobooks, music etc. Is that illegal?

Sparrow · 03-20-2009, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Clearly not, because you have agreed not to do this at the time that you bought the books. If these terms were not acceptable to you, you should not have bought the books in the first place.

I take the view that the seller has agreed to my (total lack of) terms and conditions when they sell me something - if that's not acceptable they don't have to sell me stuff.

Moejoe · 03-20-2009, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

Just wondering for all the people who say ebooks are not transferable, what do you think about this scenario?

Let's say you have a device and you sell it. For example, I had an eBookwise and it has some books on it that can ONLY be read on that one machine due to the sucky DRM (there were two books I bought before I realized this) I sold the eBookwise and left the books on there. Fair? No chance I kept a copy because they are not readable on anything but that machine...

Another scenario. Let's say you have an account at Fictionwise, and you use it to buy books for a certain device. Then you sell the device and no longer read ebooks. Meanwhile, your friend starts reading ebooks. Is it fair for you to turn over your password to her and let her have your books? How about if after you do this, she changes the password and you can't access the account anymore anyway?

I think both of these scenarios should be fair. And I think Fictionwise should give you an option to transfer books to another Fictionwise account. For example my sister never uses her account anymore, so I think she should be able to transfer the ebooks to my account if she wanted to.

I'd say completely fair in this scenario. Is it legal? Probably not, then again these laws and rules about your purchases aren't exactly on the side of 'sanity' most of the time.

dragonbone · 03-20-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Clearly not, because you have agreed not to do this at the time that you bought the books. If these terms were not acceptable to you, you should not have bought the books in the first place.

Mr HarryT are you actually a policeman, like from the Noddy books? They were my favorite books when I was still just a a tiny peanut

.

ErwinOtten · 03-20-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbone

For example, I have several iPods registered on my iTunes account and they are owned by different members in my household. So we share audiobooks, music etc. Is that illegal?

I don't know because I don't know the terms of the i-Tunes music store.

The question here was not if it's possible. Of course it's possible. I can put the PID from a friend's device in my account and download one of my books for him. It's basically the same as lending him a paper book of mine.
Do I find it morally acceptable? That's beside the point. The store's terms just make it an illegal action.
As been mentioned in another thread, you don't buy a book anymore; you just buy the right to read a book. And that's a completely different thing. People are just starting to realize that now..

HOORAY, my 200th post, I'm an addict now

dragonbone · 03-20-2009, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErwinOtten

I don't know because I don't know the terms of the i-Tunes music store.

The question here was not if it's possible. Of course it's possible. I can put the PID from a friend's device in my account and download one of my books for him. It's basically the same as lending him a paper book of mine.
Do I find it morally acceptable? That's beside the point. The store's terms just make it an illegal action.
As been mentioned in another thread, you don't buy a book anymore; you just buy the right to read a book. And that's a completely different thing. People are just starting to realize that now..

I don't understand. Who owns 5 Sony PRS Readers? Or who owns 5 iPods and uses them all together at the same time. Meaning: it is possible and legal to share content up to 5 devices. Well, that's my take on it anyway....

.

ErwinOtten · 03-20-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonbone

I don't understand. Who owns 5 Sony PRS Readers? Or who owns 5 iPods and uses them all together at the same time. Meaning: it is possible and legal to share content up to 5 devices. Well, that's my take on it anyway....

.

I don't know about Sony-readers or the Sony-store. But for the .mobi books it is quite normal to have a reader on your PC, your laptop, your cell-phone and your ereader. That makes four devices, four PID's and just one owner.

Lemurion · 03-20-2009, 07:46 AM

I look at it this way - (and I don't have a lot of device-specific DRM'd files) - If I sell my device to someone else I take my books off and remove the PID from my account. If on the other hand I pass the device along to a family member, my gf or one of the kids for example, I have no problems leaving the PID on the account and books on the device.

That's just my take on it.

shighfield · 03-20-2009, 08:53 AM

My wife and I read the same books all the time be it paperback or ebook. While we're breaking the law I don't care. There's no difference between what we do with ebooks and what we did with paper books.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-20-2009, 09:10 AM

If the issue here is whether or not it is okay to ignore and violate the contract you agreed to when purchasing the books... well, legally and morally, no. When you agree to abide by a selling contract, that's it. There's no going back and unilaterally changing your mind, and claiming the contract is no longer valid just because your situation (or just your state of mind) has changed.

If you even suspected that the contract would not be satisfactory to you in the future (or, for that matter, right now), you simply should have exercised your right to not buy the e-book. After all, it's not a necessity, it's entertainment... no one is forcing you to buy it.

But don't forget the other important fact: An e-book isn't just a physical book that is "invisible" until you turn your reader on. It is, in fact, an electronic file, and therefore subject to different rules than physical media. The rules governing their use and trade should not necessarily be the same as physical media, so you should not necessarily expect to be able to buy, trade and resell them like a book. New media demand new rules.

This is obviously a good example of why e-book contracts are overdue for review and rewriting, to make them work better for the majority of people (of whom many are likely to find themselves in the situation you are in) and sellers (who, by and large, refuse to consider the needs and realities of consumers).

rcuadro · 03-20-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shighfield

My wife and I read the same books all the time be it paperback or ebook. While we're breaking the law I don't care. There's no difference between what we do with ebooks and what we did with paper books.

Ahmen brother! I do the same with my sister.

03-20-2009, 12:16 AM	#1
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	The 'ebooks are not transferable' issue... Just wondering for all the people who say ebooks are not transferable, what do you think about this scenario? Let's say you have a device and you sell it. For example, I had an eBookwise and it has some books on it that can ONLY be read on that one machine due to the sucky DRM (there were two books I bought before I realized this) I sold the eBookwise and left the books on there. Fair? No chance I kept a copy because they are not readable on anything but that machine... Another scenario. Let's say you have an account at Fictionwise, and you use it to buy books for a certain device. Then you sell the device and no longer read ebooks. Meanwhile, your friend starts reading ebooks. Is it fair for you to turn over your password to her and let her have your books? How about if after you do this, she changes the password and you can't access the account anymore anyway? I think both of these scenarios should be fair. And I think Fictionwise should give you an option to transfer books to another Fictionwise account. For example my sister never uses her account anymore, so I think she should be able to transfer the ebooks to my account if she wanted to.

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03-20-2009, 05:48 AM	#3
dragonbone must love dogs Posts: 480 Karma: 1079 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tokyo Device: Sony PRS-700, iPhone 32GB 3GS, iPad 64GB WiFi	I may be wrong, but I thought that you can have several devices on one account. Is this for the Sony Reader?

03-20-2009, 06:06 AM	#5
dragonbone must love dogs Posts: 480 Karma: 1079 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tokyo Device: Sony PRS-700, iPhone 32GB 3GS, iPad 64GB WiFi	Well her sister owns the other one, so what's the big difference? For example, I have several iPods registered on my iTunes account and they are owned by different members in my household. So we share audiobooks, music etc. Is that illegal?

03-20-2009, 07:46 AM	#12
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	I look at it this way - (and I don't have a lot of device-specific DRM'd files) - If I sell my device to someone else I take my books off and remove the PID from my account. If on the other hand I pass the device along to a family member, my gf or one of the kids for example, I have no problems leaving the PID on the account and books on the device. That's just my take on it.

03-20-2009, 08:53 AM	#13
shighfield Groupie!? GROUPIE!?!? Posts: 317 Karma: 649 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: The Dirty Shwa Device: EBW 1150, Kobo Touch	My wife and I read the same books all the time be it paperback or ebook. While we're breaking the law I don't care. There's no difference between what we do with ebooks and what we did with paper books.

03-20-2009, 09:10 AM	#14
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	If the issue here is whether or not it is okay to ignore and violate the contract you agreed to when purchasing the books... well, legally and morally, no. When you agree to abide by a selling contract, that's it. There's no going back and unilaterally changing your mind, and claiming the contract is no longer valid just because your situation (or just your state of mind) has changed. If you even suspected that the contract would not be satisfactory to you in the future (or, for that matter, right now), you simply should have exercised your right to not buy the e-book. After all, it's not a necessity, it's entertainment... no one is forcing you to buy it. But don't forget the other important fact: An e-book isn't just a physical book that is "invisible" until you turn your reader on. It is, in fact, an electronic file, and therefore subject to different rules than physical media. The rules governing their use and trade should not necessarily be the same as physical media, so you should not necessarily expect to be able to buy, trade and resell them like a book. New media demand new rules. This is obviously a good example of why e-book contracts are overdue for review and rewriting, to make them work better for the majority of people (of whom many are likely to find themselves in the situation you are in) and sellers (who, by and large, refuse to consider the needs and realities of consumers).

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