By 2010: Samsung will power cell phones with water

Bob Russell · 10-12-2007, 10:33 AM

In the "truly amazing if true" category, the Digital Chosun reports that "Samsung Electro-Mechanics announced Thursday that it has developed a micro-fuel cell and hydrogen generator that runs on H20.
'When the handset is turned on, metal and water in the phone react to produce hydrogen gas,' explained Oh Yong-soo, vice president of Samsung Electro-Mechanics' research center. 'The gas is then supplied to the fuel cell where it reacts with oxygen in the air to generate power.' Other fuel cells need methanol to produce hydrogen, while Samsung's needs only water."

This water powered fuel cell is said to:
* Produce up to three watts
* "Hit the market by 2010"
* "Power a handset for 10 hours, twice as long as rechargeable batteries"

And whenever we hear of any new technology for powering cell phones, we know that there are likely to be benefits for e-book reading devices.

Surely this is too good to be true. What's next? Water powered homes and cars?

Via Textually.org.

HarryT · 10-12-2007, 10:36 AM

This is just "ye olde fuel cell" is it not? Hardly new technology - the Space Shuttle's been getting its on-board electrical power from fuel cells since the 1970s. The only clever bit is miniaturising the "mechanical bits".

Bob Russell · 10-12-2007, 10:47 AM

Actually, I think it really is a big deal. While it is "just" a fuel cell, the good part is that it runs on water instead of water+methanol.

I suppose that doesn't matter if it's not rechargeable, but assuming you can recharge it with water, then you have instant recharge plus double the capacity of ordinary batteries.

Ordinary fuel cells probably all require expensive recharge mechanisms or costly methane cartridges.

Mike M. · 10-12-2007, 11:14 AM

I agree with Bob on this one. Water powered cells could mean great things down the road. Besides, fuel cells powering the space shuttle hasn't really helped me out too much. Being able to power my devices with water, now that could be helpful.

NatCh · 10-12-2007, 11:26 AM

This is the really intriguing bit to me:

Quote:

When the handset is turned on, metal and water in the phone react to produce hydrogen gas

That sounds like they may have found a catalyst for separating the hydrogen and oxygen without putting any power into the process. If so ... that would rock the world ... and Samsung will soon own everything.

igorsk · 10-12-2007, 11:33 AM

It probably still spends some catalyst in the process so I guess it will need to be replaced after a while.

HarryT · 10-12-2007, 11:41 AM

Let's be clear about this: the fuel cell itself runs on hydrogen and oxygen (ie air). The clever bit is that they appear to have found some mechanism for catalyzing the water and are producing hydrogen from it to feed to the fuel cell.

jasonkchapman · 10-12-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

It probably still spends some catalyst in the process so I guess it will need to be replaced after a while.

If it's like the Maxell device, it uses aluminum to catalyze the process at room temperature. That one is designed around replaceable water and aluminum cartridges. Here is a very rough translation of the Maxell release last year.

NatCh · 10-12-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

It probably still spends some catalyst in the process so I guess it will need to be replaced after a while.

Then it's not a true catalyst, true catalysts aren't consumed in the reactions they catalyze.

Even if it's just a slowly consumed consumable, that'd still be a Big Thing.

HarryT · 10-12-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

Then it's not a true catalyst, true catalysts aren't consumed in the reactions they catalyze.

Even if it's just a slowly consumed consumable, that'd still be a Big Thing.

But a catalyst can get contaminated and lose efficiency, even if it's not actually consumed. That's what happens to catalytic converters in car exhaust systems over time, for example.

NatCh · 10-12-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But a catalyst can get contaminated and lose efficiency, even if it's not actually consumed.

Good point.

Bob Russell · 10-12-2007, 12:45 PM

Your discussion about the mechanism makes the comment about "When the handset is turned on, metal and water in the phone react" seem potentially much more meaningful also. Does this mean simply that they can turn off the cell, or does this mean that they have to hit it with power to start the reaction?

HarryT · 10-12-2007, 01:00 PM

Unlike a battery, where the potential energy is sitting there waiting to be used, a fuel cell requires a continuous flow of reagents through it - it's like an engine. That's why miniature fuel cells have been so difficult to produce - you need physical pumps and valves and stuff like that, and it all has to be gas-tight. You therefore need to "turn on" a fuel cell - switch on all the pumps, etc - before it'll start producing power. It will have some external power source (probably a small rechargeable battery) to power all that.

NatCh · 10-12-2007, 01:10 PM

Either way, being able to pull the hydrogen out without throwing a lot of juice at it is a big deal — carrying bulk hydrogen around is complicated, expensive and dangerous. Being able to carry it as water and extract it without a big power load is pretty much a requirement for any sort of commercial application, I should think.

Of course, this is going to give the airport security screeners something new to have fits about.

kovidgoyal · 10-12-2007, 03:13 PM

I suspect to get any kind of decent output though, you'd need distilled water, which would require a special recharger.

10-12-2007, 10:33 AM	#1
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	By 2010: Samsung will power cell phones with water In the "truly amazing if true" category, the Digital Chosun reports that "Samsung Electro-Mechanics announced Thursday that it has developed a micro-fuel cell and hydrogen generator that runs on H20. 'When the handset is turned on, metal and water in the phone react to produce hydrogen gas,' explained Oh Yong-soo, vice president of Samsung Electro-Mechanics' research center. 'The gas is then supplied to the fuel cell where it reacts with oxygen in the air to generate power.' Other fuel cells need methanol to produce hydrogen, while Samsung's needs only water." This water powered fuel cell is said to: * Produce up to three watts * "Hit the market by 2010" * "Power a handset for 10 hours, twice as long as rechargeable batteries" And whenever we hear of any new technology for powering cell phones, we know that there are likely to be benefits for e-book reading devices. Surely this is too good to be true. What's next? Water powered homes and cars? Via Textually.org.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
New use for e-ink in cell-phones	NatCh	News	13	10-10-2007 05:32 PM
E-Ink outships OLEDs in cell phones	Anchoku	News	1	06-20-2007 06:13 PM
E-book industry counts on cell phones	TadW	News	1	06-28-2006 09:28 AM
Cell phones as radiation sensors	Alexander Turcic	Lounge	0	08-15-2005 03:11 PM

10-12-2007, 10:36 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	This is just "ye olde fuel cell" is it not? Hardly new technology - the Space Shuttle's been getting its on-board electrical power from fuel cells since the 1970s. The only clever bit is miniaturising the "mechanical bits".

10-12-2007, 10:47 AM	#3
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Actually, I think it really is a big deal. While it is "just" a fuel cell, the good part is that it runs on water instead of water+methanol. I suppose that doesn't matter if it's not rechargeable, but assuming you can recharge it with water, then you have instant recharge plus double the capacity of ordinary batteries. Ordinary fuel cells probably all require expensive recharge mechanisms or costly methane cartridges.

10-12-2007, 11:14 AM	#4
Mike M. Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 24 Join Date: Apr 2007 Device: Sony Reader	I agree with Bob on this one. Water powered cells could mean great things down the road. Besides, fuel cells powering the space shuttle hasn't really helped me out too much. Being able to power my devices with water, now that could be helpful.

10-12-2007, 11:33 AM	#6
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	It probably still spends some catalyst in the process so I guess it will need to be replaced after a while.

10-12-2007, 11:41 AM	#7
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Let's be clear about this: the fuel cell itself runs on hydrogen and oxygen (ie air). The clever bit is that they appear to have found some mechanism for catalyzing the water and are producing hydrogen from it to feed to the fuel cell.

10-12-2007, 12:45 PM	#12
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Your discussion about the mechanism makes the comment about "When the handset is turned on, metal and water in the phone react" seem potentially much more meaningful also. Does this mean simply that they can turn off the cell, or does this mean that they have to hit it with power to start the reaction?

10-12-2007, 01:00 PM	#13
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Unlike a battery, where the potential energy is sitting there waiting to be used, a fuel cell requires a continuous flow of reagents through it - it's like an engine. That's why miniature fuel cells have been so difficult to produce - you need physical pumps and valves and stuff like that, and it all has to be gas-tight. You therefore need to "turn on" a fuel cell - switch on all the pumps, etc - before it'll start producing power. It will have some external power source (probably a small rechargeable battery) to power all that.

10-12-2007, 01:10 PM	#14
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Either way, being able to pull the hydrogen out without throwing a lot of juice at it is a big deal — carrying bulk hydrogen around is complicated, expensive and dangerous. Being able to carry it as water and extract it without a big power load is pretty much a requirement for any sort of commercial application, I should think. Of course, this is going to give the airport security screeners something new to have fits about.

10-12-2007, 03:13 PM	#15
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,850 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	I suspect to get any kind of decent output though, you'd need distilled water, which would require a special recharger.

Advert

Advert