"American Gods" discussion

[jgaiser]

On a roll here..

From the website only the gods are real, which has a nice listing of the gods in the novel, the god whom everyone forgets has his own webpage with some interesting theories.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

On a roll here..

From the website only the gods are real, which has a nice listing of the gods in the novel, the god whom everyone forgets has his own webpage with some interesting theories.

Great find! Karma to you

[Ea]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Shadow -- My impression is that his temper got him into prison and he learned in prison to keep his head down and stay out of trouble. He drank the mead and made his promise.

Yes, that's right, he has quite a temper - but I'd still think that Gaiman is making a point with his passivity. But I have no guesses as to why...

Originally Posted by jgaiser

A bit more about Shadow as Balder. Searching around on the web, i find this snippet:

According to legend, Balder was concerned with his own death, so his mother extracted an oath from every creature, object, and force in nature, to never harm Balder. However, she forgot about the mistletoe, and Loki, who was jealous of Balder, tricked Balder's blind brother Hod into stabbing Balder with mistletoe.

Late in the book, we have Mr World (Loki) speaking to Laura:

"Yes," said Mr. World. "I know. When this is all done with, I guess I'll sharpen a stick of mistletoe and go down to the ash tree, and ram it through his eye. Now. My stick, please."

Comments?

The way the story goes is that Balder had a series of dreams, foretelling of his death. This worried his mother, the goddess Frigg, so much that she extracted that promise of everything not to harm Balder, except she forgot the harmless-appearing mistletoe.

Since Balder is apparently invulnerable, the gods make a sport of it, trying to attack Balder or throw or shoot things at him, just to see everything fail. Balder's brother Hod feels left out though, as he's blind, but Loke tells Hod he'd help him aim an arrow at Balder, so he can participate even if he can''t see the target. Unfortunately the arrow is made from mistletoe and Balder dies.

After his death, the gods try to retrieve Balder back from the underworld of the dead. They send a servant to speak with the ruler of the underworld, Hel, but she can only tell them that Balder will come back if everything and everyone in the world will cry for him. So again Frigg goes out, to convince everything and everyone to cry for Balder. She is almost successful, but cannot convince an old hag, Tøkk, to cry for her son - "I will cry only dry tears for Balder," she tells Frigg. Some say that Tøkk was Loke in disguise.

But enough story-telling I noticed that remark of Mr. World, too, but to me it comes across as a sarcastic remark that alludes to that story, but doesn't mean Shadow is Balder.

It's just that I see very little in Shadow's personality and person that can allude to Balder - perhaps except this - that I don't like the hypothesis.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by cearbhallain

To go back a bit in the discussion. When I read the book, several years ago, I thought Odin was referring to Wednesday as being an Aspect. God's do have them

As far as I understand "aspects" of a god, it's more to do with certain functions of them being revered as a separate deity, or, for example, the gods of the Norse pantheon are aspects of a "complete" deity.

In this case, I'd interpret the Icelandic Odin's remark as he is the original, while the American "Wednesday" is a "copy". Ironically, the Odin deity figure probably originated in what is today northern Germany, at around 500 AD, and was "imported" to Iceland at around 874 AD with settlers from Norway.

I haven't been able to find it again, but I vaguely remember reading an interview or something, with Gaiman, where he says himself that the American gods are "versions" of old world gods who brought over by people who believed in them strongly enough.

Originally Posted by cearbhallain

Also, this was the first Gaiman I read. I've read several others since, and I'm always disappointed, you're idea that it's his most "adult" story could explain this.

I haven't read all Gaiman's books, but impression so far is that most of them are aimed as much towards older children as towards adults. I haven't read the Sandman series, but it's my impression that that is "adult" as well. I just remembered "Fragile Things", a short story collection, which you might like.

[recluse]

Could Shadow possibly be Heimdall?

[Ea]

Why do you suggest it? I don't see any clear connection myself.

[recluse]

To tell you the truth, his name popped into my head.
All I know about him is that he defended the bridge to Asgard.

I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention him.

[Ea]

*lol* Well, that's an... approach I personally find little in the Heimdal figure that could correspond with Shadow. That's why I asked. For one thing, he has nine mothers.

[cearbhallain]

Originally Posted by Ea

I haven't read all Gaiman's books, but impression so far is that most of them are aimed as much towards older children as towards adults. I haven't read the Sandman series, but it's my impression that that is "adult" as well. I just remembered "Fragile Things", a short story collection, which you might like.

The husbeast enjoyed Sandman, I think we have the first volume around here somewhere I'll check it out. We also both enjoyed the audio recording of Anasi Boys, but I think reading it would have been tedious.

[recluse]

I'm glad the workings of my mind amuse you, Ea.
You should try living with it.

Nine mothers?
He must have been a BIG baby.


And I liked Gaiman's "Neverwhere" very much.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by recluse

I'm glad the workings of my mind amuse you, Ea.
You should try living with it.

Hah! Try living with mine. I struggle to keep up

Originally Posted by recluse

Nine mothers?
He must have been a BIG baby.

It's one of those mystical god things. Heimdal is one of the gods that we don't know very much about, but he could hear the grass grow and see the individual strands of the wool of sheep from many miles away. Heimdal guards Bifrost, the rainbow bridge that spans Mid-garth and As-garth (middle earth and gods' home), and he will warn the gods when Ragnarok starts and the Jotuns attack by blowing his horn 'Gjallar'.

[hidari]

Originally Posted by Ea

Hah! Try living with mine. I struggle to keep up


It's one of those mystical god things. Heimdal is one of the gods that we don't know very much about, but he could hear the grass grow and see the individual strands of the wool of sheep from many miles away. Heimdal guards Bifrost, the rainbow bridge that spans Mid-garth and As-garth (middle earth and gods' home), and he will warn the gods when Ragnarok starts and the Jotuns attack by blowing his horn 'Gjallar'.

The Shadow must be Elvis... All the subliminal inclinations point to that....

[jgaiser]

Ok.. I'm not letting go of this Shadow/Balder thing...

Seriously, The 'American Gods' article on Wikipedia implies that the fact is confirmed in a follow-up novella, "Monarch of the Glen". It is part of Fragile Things, a collection of short stories and poems by Neil. I have just downloaded a copy for my Kindle and will follow up in a day or so...

Carry on...

[MelC]

Has anyone here read Anansi Boys. Same mythological underpinnings different execution also by Neil Gaiman. Without giving any spoilers, if you have it might widen or change your perspective here. Or perhaps not. It has been a long time since I read Anansi Boys and even longer since I read American Gods so I can't recall all the details that would be necessary to participate fully in this discussion. Just curious as to whether anyone has given any thought as to how they fit together on this point.

Mel

[Ea]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Ok.. I'm not letting go of this Shadow/Balder thing...

Seriously, The 'American Gods' article on Wikipedia implies that the fact is confirmed in a follow-up novella, "Monarch of the Glen". It is part of Fragile Things, a collection of short stories and poems by Neil. I have just downloaded a copy for my Kindle and will follow up in a day or so...

Carry on...

I've just finished it.

Spoiler:

According to "Monarch of the Glen" Shadow's given name is "Baldur Moon" - so I give in But it still puzzles me; Gaiman's American Balder seems as far away from the Norse Balder as he possibly can be. And I wonder what he had in mind when he wrote American Gods. I honestly don't understand the connection.