Help me out: First use of these 4 sci-fi literary elements

Steven Lake · 12-28-2009, 08:59 AM

Ok, I've been having an ongoing debate with several people of late over my use of warp drives, torpedoes, impulse drive and particle transporters in my books. The people I've talked to say that these items were created by Star Trek, and therefore my use of them is infringement on the Star Trek trademark. My argument is that they are not unique to Star Trek (not much is really), and were actually concepts that have been around for a while and ultimately derived from other works of sci-fi, and ultimately conscripted into Star Trek, and are thus not unique or originally created by Star Trek.

So here's what I've gathered. Warp drive is a sci-fi technology concept that was actually first pioneered by John G Cramer in 1934 (he called it Micro-warp, but it's still the same thing). The idea was further enhanced by up to a half dozen other authors in the 1950-66 period based off of Einstein's theories and other revelations of science that came about during that 16 year period.

Now with photon torpedoes, I'll give Star Trek the win on this one, but only as far as the name goes, as they did in fact coin the name, but not the technology, as the use of torpedoes has been around in sci-fi since the turn of the century, as torpedoes themselves in their various incipient forms have been around since the early 19th century. Of course, even Flash Gordon used a type of photon torpedo, even if it wasn't specifically named that. Agree?

Particle Transporters are actually an Einstein creation, as his theory of the interchangeability of matter and energy was spawned in the early 1900's and first used by sci-fi authors in the 1930's. I mean, even shows like Flash Gordon used it. The idea of "beaming" was even around during the early radio days, as it was sometimes said that you could "beam your voice" across the air using the radio and be heard miles away.

And lastly, impulse drive is merely another form of repulsion drive, and good lord that's been around since shortly after electro-magnetism was first pioneered. Maybe not in the form we recognize, but certainly the initial concepts were pioneered way back then and over time expanded into the ideas we know and recognize today, such as direct matter to energy particle transport.

So, with those arguments laid out, can anyone help me with validating this argument that Star Trek was NOT the first one to use any of these four concepts, nor are they unique to the show, but were merely borrowed from other sci-fi authors or shows? Also, how many other authors out there use the concepts of warp drive today, some even calling it by name? I mean, even Nasa talks about warp drive these days.

lene1949 · 12-29-2009, 02:00 AM

You're right... They're not Unique to Startrek, but I suppose, if you use them a lot, it'll sound like a Startrek story??

Steven Lake · 12-29-2009, 09:00 AM

Well, I try to use them very sparingly. I definitely don't want a Star Trek sound/feel to the story, but yet I don't want to go the cliche fallback route either. Overall though, I do keep the thought of those major sci-fi empires in my mind and do my best to steer clear of any possible resemblance in my writings to any of them, even if I do use a few of the same plot elements, such as warp drive. The last thing I want is to be called a Star Trek rehasher.

Douglas Rhodes · 12-30-2009, 01:53 PM

Here's the thing. If you use one of those elements on a ship in your story it is perfectly fine. If you use all of those elements on your ship then you have an obvious connection to Star Trek. If I wrote a space opera in which a monk of a religious sect weilded a light sword composed of his channeled inner energy and battled a cyborg, it would be impossible to miss the Star Wars similarities, regardless of how different the actual specifics were.

On the other hand, Terry Brooks is constantly accused of ripping off LOTR, but his books are great.

jaxx6166 · 12-30-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Rhodes

On the other hand, Terry Brooks is constantly accused of ripping off LOTR, but his books are great.

Terry's actually gone on record (See: On Writing) and admitted that his Sword of Shannara was an obvious tribute to Lord of the Rings. He wrote the original as an outlet for the stresses of practicing law. And he was pretty darn shocked that Lester Del Ray even published it, if I recall correctly

Douglas Rhodes · 12-30-2009, 11:11 PM

God, I need to be shocked like that

.

BillSmithBooks · 12-30-2009, 11:22 PM

Check out the Oxford English Dictionary listing of first citations for various sci-fi terminology:

http://www.jessesword.com/sf/list

I was amazed to find out how old some "modern" sci-fi terms are. Awesome resource!

Steven Lake · 12-31-2009, 10:02 AM

jaxx6166: Geez, I don't know why he was shocked about that. Sword of Shannara is one of my top ten favorite fantasy books. I even took one of my short stories and used it as an experiment to see if I could write a short fantasy piece using his writing style. I didn't get very close to his true style (although you can see hints of his form in the story), but it helped me focus my writing well enough that it's turned out to be one of my highest rated short stories.

So I give him huge props, not just for his writing style, and stories, but for the fact that he helped make me a better author.

BillSmithBooks: Thanks. That link will be hugely useful to me.

12-28-2009, 08:59 AM	#1
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,157 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Help me out: First use of these 4 sci-fi literary elements Ok, I've been having an ongoing debate with several people of late over my use of warp drives, torpedoes, impulse drive and particle transporters in my books. The people I've talked to say that these items were created by Star Trek, and therefore my use of them is infringement on the Star Trek trademark. My argument is that they are not unique to Star Trek (not much is really), and were actually concepts that have been around for a while and ultimately derived from other works of sci-fi, and ultimately conscripted into Star Trek, and are thus not unique or originally created by Star Trek. So here's what I've gathered. Warp drive is a sci-fi technology concept that was actually first pioneered by John G Cramer in 1934 (he called it Micro-warp, but it's still the same thing). The idea was further enhanced by up to a half dozen other authors in the 1950-66 period based off of Einstein's theories and other revelations of science that came about during that 16 year period. Now with photon torpedoes, I'll give Star Trek the win on this one, but only as far as the name goes, as they did in fact coin the name, but not the technology, as the use of torpedoes has been around in sci-fi since the turn of the century, as torpedoes themselves in their various incipient forms have been around since the early 19th century. Of course, even Flash Gordon used a type of photon torpedo, even if it wasn't specifically named that. Agree? Particle Transporters are actually an Einstein creation, as his theory of the interchangeability of matter and energy was spawned in the early 1900's and first used by sci-fi authors in the 1930's. I mean, even shows like Flash Gordon used it. The idea of "beaming" was even around during the early radio days, as it was sometimes said that you could "beam your voice" across the air using the radio and be heard miles away. And lastly, impulse drive is merely another form of repulsion drive, and good lord that's been around since shortly after electro-magnetism was first pioneered. Maybe not in the form we recognize, but certainly the initial concepts were pioneered way back then and over time expanded into the ideas we know and recognize today, such as direct matter to energy particle transport. So, with those arguments laid out, can anyone help me with validating this argument that Star Trek was NOT the first one to use any of these four concepts, nor are they unique to the show, but were merely borrowed from other sci-fi authors or shows? Also, how many other authors out there use the concepts of warp drive today, some even calling it by name? I mean, even Nasa talks about warp drive these days.

12-30-2009, 11:11 PM	#6
Douglas Rhodes Connoisseur Posts: 78 Karma: 500132 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Device: Blackberry Storm, laptop	God, I need to be shocked like that.

12-30-2009, 11:22 PM	#7
BillSmithBooks Padawan Learner Posts: 243 Karma: 1085815 Join Date: May 2009 Location: www.OutlawGalaxy.com, Foothills of NY's Adirondack mountains Device: My PC...using Puppy Linux (FBReader, Calibre, Kindle Cloud Reader,	Check this out... Check out the Oxford English Dictionary listing of first citations for various sci-fi terminology: http://www.jessesword.com/sf/list I was amazed to find out how old some "modern" sci-fi terms are. Awesome resource!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Styling Elements in CSS - ADE and Sony	toskpro	Sony Reader	0	07-19-2010 01:55 PM
Multiple reference elements with the same type in the <guide>	Valloric	ePub	8	04-25-2010 11:18 AM
ePub elements pulled from the internet?	melisen	ePub	1	12-08-2009 09:59 PM
Philosophy Kant, Immanuel: Metaphysical Elements of Ethics. 13 Oct 2008	RWood	BBeB/LRF Books	0	10-13-2008 08:40 PM
Windows 7 To Incorporate Multitouch Elements	NatCh	News	22	05-29-2008 12:15 PM

12-29-2009, 02:00 AM	#2
lene1949 Wizard Posts: 1,952 Karma: 213930 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Middelfart, Denmark Device: Kindle paper white	You're right... They're not Unique to Startrek, but I suppose, if you use them a lot, it'll sound like a Startrek story??

12-29-2009, 09:00 AM	#3
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,157 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Well, I try to use them very sparingly. I definitely don't want a Star Trek sound/feel to the story, but yet I don't want to go the cliche fallback route either. Overall though, I do keep the thought of those major sci-fi empires in my mind and do my best to steer clear of any possible resemblance in my writings to any of them, even if I do use a few of the same plot elements, such as warp drive. The last thing I want is to be called a Star Trek rehasher.

12-30-2009, 01:53 PM	#4
Douglas Rhodes Connoisseur Posts: 78 Karma: 500132 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Device: Blackberry Storm, laptop	Here's the thing. If you use one of those elements on a ship in your story it is perfectly fine. If you use all of those elements on your ship then you have an obvious connection to Star Trek. If I wrote a space opera in which a monk of a religious sect weilded a light sword composed of his channeled inner energy and battled a cyborg, it would be impossible to miss the Star Wars similarities, regardless of how different the actual specifics were. On the other hand, Terry Brooks is constantly accused of ripping off LOTR, but his books are great.

12-31-2009, 10:02 AM	#8
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,157 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	jaxx6166: Geez, I don't know why he was shocked about that. Sword of Shannara is one of my top ten favorite fantasy books. I even took one of my short stories and used it as an experiment to see if I could write a short fantasy piece using his writing style. I didn't get very close to his true style (although you can see hints of his form in the story), but it helped me focus my writing well enough that it's turned out to be one of my highest rated short stories. So I give him huge props, not just for his writing style, and stories, but for the fact that he helped make me a better author. BillSmithBooks: Thanks. That link will be hugely useful to me.