Baen-Tor deal back on? - Page 3

Lemurion · 08-26-2007, 01:07 PM

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones-- I grabbed the three Family Trade books when they were briefly available from Webscriptions.

What little I've seen on the Bar (Baen's Bar that is) implies that while the books were pulled, negotiations have definitely continued, and that the door isn't completely shut. One big (if circumstantial) point in its favor is that the Tor Webscriptions forum hasn't been pulled from the Bar.

I won't be surprised if things do turn around, but sadly can't expect that Tor will match Baen prices.

Both Davids Drake and Weber are able to put Tor books on Webscriptions, but it's partly because they have a bit more clout than many other writers.

delphidb96 · 08-26-2007, 02:56 PM

I managed to grab books 1 and 2 but thought to wait for my next paycheck to buy the third. Big mistake! And I can't wait to get it when it DOES become available.

cstross · 08-30-2007, 06:55 AM

Hi!

I spoke to Patrick Nielsen Hayden (Tor's editorial director) a few hours ago. In a nutshell: the Tor/Baen deal is back on. They're waiting for lawyers to sign papers, but in principle Tor will be publishing DRM-free ebooks via Baen's web sales front (webscription). It won't be their entire list, and they won't be bundling them as webscriptions, and some details need to be ironed out, but the basic intention is there to go ahead soon (in the next few months).

HarryT · 08-30-2007, 06:59 AM

That's great news, Charles. Thank you very much for sharing it with us!

Lemurion · 08-30-2007, 07:51 AM

Excellent news! Would there be any info available on the way of pricing? Is it going to be near hardcover or closer to Baen's single copy prices?

astra · 08-30-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstross

webscriptions

Sorry for a silly question. What does a word above mean?

Nate the great · 08-30-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

Sorry for a silly question. What does a word above mean?

www.webscriptions.net is Baen Books' ebook selling website.

Xenophon · 08-30-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

what does "and they won't be bundling them as webscriptions" mean?

(really a paraphrase, I guess...)

Baen offers a special deal on eBooks in which they bundle everything they publish in any given month for a single price ($15). They call it a 'WebScription.' It's a pretty good deal, because you get a minimum of three books never before in bits and usually a total of 6-8 books. The same books bought a singles would run you $6 each, so you're saving around 50% over their already-low eBook prices -- assuming, that is, that you wanted all the books.

It's really quite clever. I've purchased the monthly bundles because there were enough things I wanted to make it no more expensive than singles would have been. And then I've had a look at the books I originally wasn't interested in. Along the way, I've 'discovered' bunches and bunches of authors whose books I would never have looked at otherwise. Hmmmm....

@cstross -- Super news! you might try pointing out the previous paragraph to your editors. Even if they don't go the whole webscription route, maybe they'll consider some mixed author bundles to try to get a similar synergy.

Xenophon

Blue Tyson · 08-30-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstross

Hi.

As one of the authors whose books was -- briefly -- available through Webscriptions, I have an interest at stake here. And it happens that I will be seeing Patrick next week, so I'll ask him what's going on (and what I can repeat in public).

(<em>I</em> want to see "The Clan Corporate" and "The Merchants War" on sale through Webscriptions too!)

So do I, because I bought the first two at the time!

lawizard · 08-30-2007, 12:24 PM

I have been a webscriptions subscriber for over 7 years now. I am also a Saturn Universe member of Baen's Universe. On my Webscriptions page are a list of publishers of which Tor Books is one. The following list was copied from Baen's Webscriptions page.

Baen Books
Del Rey
Meisha Merlin
SRM Publisher
Tor Books

The links to books leads to books that can be added to a "wish list" as opposed to the shopping cart.

Lemurion · 08-30-2007, 01:09 PM

The Tor books were never removed from the system because people had already bought them and needed to retain access. Once the deal comes back online I expect them to enable Tor books for the shopping cart.

I also expect their sales to remain below Baen's unless they can manage a similar price point-- which sounds unlikely based on the Off Armageddon Reef pricing.

nekokami · 08-30-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstross

the Tor/Baen deal is back on.

W00t!

Thanks for letting us know!

cstross · 08-30-2007, 06:34 PM

I'm not sure -- this is inference, not informed comment -- but I think Tor's problem with the webscription bundle model is that they publish too much. Tor print about 330 books a year, so a webscription bundle for a month would potentially include up to 30 titles -- or it would have to be a limited subset. Either way, that introduces certain organizational problems (who goes into a five book bundle from the 30 books published per month? How do you handle accounting for author royalties?) and a bunch of other headaches. Much simpler just to stick to individual book sales and let the readers make up their own bundles. They can always add a discount coupon code later -- buy 5 books, get a 20% discount, or something similar.

I don't know for sure what pricing model they're going for, but my understanding is that what spiked their earlier ebook experiment was a senior executive's insistence that (a) DRM was mandatory, and (b) ebooks must not be sold for less than 80% of the dead tree book's price. This executive is now out of the picture, and I believe Tor's folks are smart enough to price their ebooks appropriately.

Not all Tor authors will be available through Baen's storefront, especially at first. Some folks still haven't got the DRM-is-bad message, others are encumbered by contractual arrangements involving other publishers, and so on. They'll start with a subset of their list, working with authors who're known to be "on message" and broadening out over time.

Lemurion · 08-30-2007, 07:37 PM

That sounds really good-- I think selling Tor eBooks for the $4-6 range that most Baen singles go for sounds about right. I'd wondered about the greater number of titles and webscriptions bundling myself. I couldn't see Tor being able to bundle a full month at $15.

Blue Tyson · 08-30-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstross

I'm not sure -- this is inference, not informed comment -- but I think Tor's problem with the webscription bundle model is that they publish too much. Tor print about 330 books a year, so a webscription bundle for a month would potentially include up to 30 titles -- or it would have to be a limited subset. Either way, that introduces certain organizational problems (who goes into a five book bundle from the 30 books published per month? How do you handle accounting for author royalties?) and a bunch of other headaches. Much simpler just to stick to individual book sales and let the readers make up their own bundles. They can always add a discount coupon code later -- buy 5 books, get a 20% discount, or something similar.

30 sounds tricky, but maybe they could break it down to a 'SF bundle', 'fantasy bundle', 'classics bundle', 'paranormal romance' bundle or whatever.

Does sound tricky though until they borrowed Baen's lawyers and accountants to work it out.

Just being able to get the single books at reasonable prices is cool enough to start with, although no-one would say no to a discount for mass purchase.

(Fictionwise has that sort of thing, and a club).

08-30-2007, 12:24 PM	#40
lawizard Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2005 Device: Tungsten T3	The Proof seems to be on the page I have been a webscriptions subscriber for over 7 years now. I am also a Saturn Universe member of Baen's Universe. On my Webscriptions page are a list of publishers of which Tor Books is one. The following list was copied from Baen's Webscriptions page. Baen Books Del Rey Meisha Merlin SRM Publisher Tor Books The links to books leads to books that can be added to a "wish list" as opposed to the shopping cart. Last edited by lawizard; 08-30-2007 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Additional Info

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08-26-2007, 01:07 PM	#31
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	I guess I'm one of the lucky ones-- I grabbed the three Family Trade books when they were briefly available from Webscriptions. What little I've seen on the Bar (Baen's Bar that is) implies that while the books were pulled, negotiations have definitely continued, and that the door isn't completely shut. One big (if circumstantial) point in its favor is that the Tor Webscriptions forum hasn't been pulled from the Bar. I won't be surprised if things do turn around, but sadly can't expect that Tor will match Baen prices. Both Davids Drake and Weber are able to put Tor books on Webscriptions, but it's partly because they have a bit more clout than many other writers.

08-26-2007, 02:56 PM	#32
delphidb96 Wizard Posts: 2,999 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Citrus Heights, California Device: TWO Kindle 2s, one each Bookeen Cybook Gen3, Sony PRS-500, Axim X51V	I managed to grab books 1 and 2 but thought to wait for my next paycheck to buy the third. Big mistake! And I can't wait to get it when it DOES become available.

08-30-2007, 06:55 AM	#33
cstross Cynic Posts: 86 Karma: 514 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Device: Lots, started with a Psion 3 circa 1998	Hi! I spoke to Patrick Nielsen Hayden (Tor's editorial director) a few hours ago. In a nutshell: the Tor/Baen deal is back on. They're waiting for lawyers to sign papers, but in principle Tor will be publishing DRM-free ebooks via Baen's web sales front (webscription). It won't be their entire list, and they won't be bundling them as webscriptions, and some details need to be ironed out, but the basic intention is there to go ahead soon (in the next few months).

08-30-2007, 06:59 AM	#34
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	That's great news, Charles. Thank you very much for sharing it with us!

08-30-2007, 07:51 AM	#35
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	Excellent news! Would there be any info available on the way of pricing? Is it going to be near hardcover or closer to Baen's single copy prices?

08-30-2007, 01:09 PM	#41
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	The Tor books were never removed from the system because people had already bought them and needed to retain access. Once the deal comes back online I expect them to enable Tor books for the shopping cart. I also expect their sales to remain below Baen's unless they can manage a similar price point-- which sounds unlikely based on the Off Armageddon Reef pricing.

08-30-2007, 06:34 PM	#43
cstross Cynic Posts: 86 Karma: 514 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Device: Lots, started with a Psion 3 circa 1998	I'm not sure -- this is inference, not informed comment -- but I think Tor's problem with the webscription bundle model is that they publish too much. Tor print about 330 books a year, so a webscription bundle for a month would potentially include up to 30 titles -- or it would have to be a limited subset. Either way, that introduces certain organizational problems (who goes into a five book bundle from the 30 books published per month? How do you handle accounting for author royalties?) and a bunch of other headaches. Much simpler just to stick to individual book sales and let the readers make up their own bundles. They can always add a discount coupon code later -- buy 5 books, get a 20% discount, or something similar. I don't know for sure what pricing model they're going for, but my understanding is that what spiked their earlier ebook experiment was a senior executive's insistence that (a) DRM was mandatory, and (b) ebooks must not be sold for less than 80% of the dead tree book's price. This executive is now out of the picture, and I believe Tor's folks are smart enough to price their ebooks appropriately. Not all Tor authors will be available through Baen's storefront, especially at first. Some folks still haven't got the DRM-is-bad message, others are encumbered by contractual arrangements involving other publishers, and so on. They'll start with a subset of their list, working with authors who're known to be "on message" and broadening out over time.

08-30-2007, 07:37 PM	#44
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	That sounds really good-- I think selling Tor eBooks for the $4-6 range that most Baen singles go for sounds about right. I'd wondered about the greater number of titles and webscriptions bundling myself. I couldn't see Tor being able to bundle a full month at $15.

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