Is today's SF too pessimistic?

[BeccaPrice]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

If the crisis is big enough to threaten an otherwise-stable group or society, the story can't be optimistic.?

oh, nonsense. Lots of SF deals with big crises and yet has an optimistic ending! Lois Bujold deals with major crises facing societies, and doesn't in the least inspire me to slit my wrists by the end. You can have an optimistic book without it being fluff and unicorns farting rainbows.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

oh, nonsense. Lots of SF deals with big crises and yet has an optimistic ending! Lois Bujold deals with major crises facing societies, and doesn't in the least inspire me to slit my wrists by the end. You can have an optimistic book without it being fluff and unicorns farting rainbows.

Then what's this whole discussion been about, really? Seriously?

If the ending basically determines a book's overall pessimistic or optimistic nature, I'd be willing to bet the actual number pessimistic SF books is quite small. I know I'm hard-pressed to come up with any that start out bleak and end just as bleakly. I'm sure they're out there, but I can't imagine there being very many.

Or are people saying "pessimistic" when they mean something else?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Then what's this whole discussion been about, really? Seriously?

If the ending basically determines a book's overall pessimistic or optimistic nature, I'd be willing to bet the actual number pessimistic SF books is quite small. I know I'm hard-pressed to come up with any that start out bleak and end just as bleakly. I'm sure they're out there, but I can't imagine there being very many.

Or are people saying "pessimistic" when they mean something else?

Seriously. The epilogue of The Hunger Games

Spoiler:

(which I LOVE) is pretty hopeful, but the series itself is pretty grim.

[Tony1988]

Refering to the thread topic: I dont think so. Most pessimistic scifi probably has it right. (yeah many "pessimistic" scifi stories end on a high note but really nothing ever ultimately ends happy, right??)

Think about it. Any story set in earths far future is usually pesimistic. There is a reason for that.

Its because our future is most certainly going to be dreadful.

Again think about it:
War
Overpopulation
Long term climate change (ice ages)
Water supply issues
Natural Disaster (vulcanic, weather, external forces outside of earth)

and than ultimately the death of the sun and earth.(which is very far in the future)

ALL of these things will come to pass. So of COURSE scifi will reflect it. The future really isnt that rosy for the earth. No matter how much us humans like to sugar coat things, sweep it under the rug, close our ears....its all going to happen one way or the other. Its a question of when not if.

[anamardoll]

For that matter, why just "Today's" sci-fi? I don't remember The Time Machine being a happy book. (Scarred me for life as a child!)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

If the crisis is big enough to threaten an otherwise-stable group or society, the story can't be optimistic.

It can if the crisis is averted before serious damage is done.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

In science a PhD shows that your peers consider you capable of doing independent research.

What novel scientific ideas did you introduce in your books?

A method of exciting the particles in a region of space, at the quantum level, in order to induce instantaneous tunneling from one point in space to another, without passing through normal space, thereby moving the particles from point to point faster than light, and maintaining position relative to each other via quantum entanglement; said concept based on articles published in various issues of Scientific American. (Verdant Skies)

Photovoltaic panels backed by a nano-antenna that absorbed infra-red radiation, making the solar cells significantly more efficient and longer-lasting; said concept based on research documented by Idaho National Laboratory, along with partners at Microcontinuum Inc. and Patrick Pinhero of the University of Missouri. (Chasing the Light)

Applying a combination of self-hypnosis, bio-feedback analysis and realtime computer imagery to enable a human subject to gain control of autonomous physiological systems that are normally independent of conscious control, such as control of heartrate, glandular systems and memory control/manipulation. (Evoguía)

Of course, there's more to SF than just the science...

[mewmartigan]

I didn't read this whole thread but if I am remembering right, much of the hard sci-fi I have read is pretty good and usually paints the smart scientists as the heros. Off the top of my head David Brin's Earth, Gregory Benford's Artifact, Ben Bova's Grand Tour stuff, etc.

If Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy didn't get us the inspiration to colonize Mars, I don't know what will

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Tony1988

Refering to the thread topic: I dont think so. Most pessimistic scifi probably has it right. (yeah many "pessimistic" scifi stories end on a high note but really nothing ever ultimately ends happy, right??)

Think about it. Any story set in earths far future is usually pesimistic. There is a reason for that.

Its because our future is most certainly going to be dreadful.

Again think about it:
War
Overpopulation
Long term climate change (ice ages)
Water supply issues
Natural Disaster (vulcanic, weather, external forces outside of earth)

and than ultimately the death of the sun and earth.(which is very far in the future)

ALL of these things will come to pass. So of COURSE scifi will reflect it. The future really isnt that rosy for the earth. No matter how much us humans like to sugar coat things, sweep it under the rug, close our ears....its all going to happen one way or the other. Its a question of when not if.

Well aren't you a glass half full kind guy.

[sabredog]

There was an episode of Babylon 5 called "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" that shows the future history of mankind from the 23rd century right through to the distant future, so distant that Sol is about to go nova. The remaining human on Earth is in actuality an evolved human who leaves to join his kind beyond the rim of the explored space, to a new earth.

Humanity's future is full of highs and lows, but eventually, untold years into the future, humans have evolved to become far more.

Stories like that give me hope for the future.

I read for enjoyment, not to be made miserable by a depressing book.

[DiapDealer]

Stories like that give me hope for the future.

I read for enjoyment, not to be made miserable by a depressing book.

Have you run out of material that works for you? I realize there's no way to keep that from sounding smart-assed so I won't try, but I think the question is valid: why concern yourself with stuff you don't like to read if you still have plenty of stuff that you do?

[xg4bx]

i just finished Jupiter by Ben Bova and i'm currently reading Verdant Pioneers by MR alum Steven Lyle Jordan.

these are along the lines of what i'm looking for. in Jupiter's case, the sense of wonder and exploration. in Verdant's case, hope and normal people in the face of disaster. yes theres a bad situation on earth but nobody is devolving into savagery,they aren't cracking each other's heads open or boiling babies because food is getting harder to find.

i think there's a balance but sometimes i think it's simply easier to be negative than look for any silver lining.

and +1 to sabredog, babylon 5 was my favorite sci-fi show of all time. it's one of the few shows my dad and i shared and the continuing storyline was awesome. i cried like a baby during the last episode lol.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Have you run out of material that works for you? I realize there's no way to keep that from sounding smart-assed so I won't try, but I think the question is valid: why concern yourself with stuff you don't like to read if you still have plenty of stuff that you do?

That's a great question. I think that part of it is the hype. When a hot new book comes out, everyone wants to be a part of that conversation...and most of the books lately are rather dark and dismal.

In my particular group...dark and gritty rules the day (and this is fantasy, not SciFi). So if I want to join in the conversation I have to have read GRRM. And I hate GRRM...so I get left out of the conversation.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

That's a great question. I think that part of it is the hype. When a hot new book comes out, everyone wants to be a part of that conversation...and most of the books lately are rather dark and dismal.

In my particular group...dark and gritty rules the day (and this is fantasy, not SciFi). So if I want to join in the conversation I have to have read GRRM. And I hate GRRM...so I get left out of the conversation.

That's fair, I guess. I tend to forget about group reads since I so seldom take part myself.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Have you run out of material that works for you? I realize there's no way to keep that from sounding smart-assed so I won't try, but I think the question is valid: why concern yourself with stuff you don't like to read if you still have plenty of stuff that you do?

No, plenty of good books out there for all of us to read.

Valid question btw.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

oh, nonsense. Lots of SF deals with big crises and yet has an optimistic ending! Lois Bujold deals with major crises facing societies, and doesn't in the least inspire me to slit my wrists by the end. You can have an optimistic book without it being fluff and unicorns farting rainbows.

It seems to me that the people on this thread who are looking for optimistic books aren't actually making it to the end of the gritty books to look for the silver lining.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

It can if the crisis is averted before serious damage is done.

The crisis is averted towards the end of the book. Until then the characters live in desperation.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

A method of exciting the particles in a region of space, at the quantum level, in order to induce instantaneous tunneling from one point in space to another, without passing through normal space, thereby moving the particles from point to point faster than light, and maintaining position relative to each other via quantum entanglement; said concept based on articles published in various issues of Scientific American. (Verdant Skies)

So what is the method?

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Photovoltaic panels backed by a nano-antenna that absorbed infra-red radiation, making the solar cells significantly more efficient and longer-lasting; said concept based on research documented by Idaho National Laboratory, along with partners at Microcontinuum Inc. and Patrick Pinhero of the University of Missouri. (Chasing the Light)

Nano-antenna that absorbs infra-red radiation is what all plants are using.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Applying a combination of self-hypnosis, bio-feedback analysis and realtime computer imagery to enable a human subject to gain control of autonomous physiological systems that are normally independent of conscious control, such as control of heartrate, glandular systems and memory control/manipulation. (Evoguía)

I don't really see the advantage of doing this. Autonomous systems give a more efficient use of the brain. Why would anyone want to put conscious effort into keeping their heart rate up?

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Of course, there's more to SF than just the science...

I know there is, and I like to see the way in which the technology that the characters take for granted affects the social structure of their society.