Over rated Authors-Isaac Asimov

[BenG]

But there are plenty of alternate histories that you wouldn't think of considering as SF.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Alternate history requires the same discipline and techniques as SF. Both are examples of world building (roughly) within the range of known science. And both are (at their best) about exploring ideas. If alternate history isn't SF it is so darned close as makes no difference.
And some, like GUNS OF THE SOUTH, AXIS OF TIME, and the 163x series require a SF staple just to get started: time-travel.
One might argue that some steampunk is fantasy instead of SF (AGATHA H, for one) but most alternate history is SF.

I think the contention comes in when the Science is less critical (or non-existent) to the story than the simple differences in history. To me without the science aspect it should not be considered SF.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I think the contention comes in when the Science is less critical (or non-existent) to the story than the simple differences in history. To me without the science aspect it should not be considered SF.

I agree.

[caleb72]

Because A Handmaid's Tale reminds me a bit of books like 1984 and A Brave New World. To me, it's sci-fi in the same way that they were. They imagine a future earth should some possibility progress towards its logical extreme.

But this book scared me a little mainly because of the ending. You read through this horrific account of a society with its extreme views towards women and then you're presented with this academic view of the whole thing that echoes the way we sometimes whitewash our own past or present. We apply a level of understanding about distant cultures or history that I think we couldn't possibly apply to that of the main character - because we experience it throughout the novel!

I felt this was the most upsetting aspect of the book and why I thought it was brilliant. And like many novels (such as 1984 etc..), it makes me examine the world around me and start assessing if we're actually that different or whether, in fact, we're heading in a similar direction.

Sorry - this was all outrageously off topic, but I couldn't resist sharing my love/horror of A Handmaid's Tale.

[GrannyGrump]

I haven't read the whole thread (yet), but one point that may or may not have been mentioned is the aborted attempt to reverse the ghettoization that happened to the genre called "science fiction". I remember many years ago, when some authors and editors were trying to encourage use of the term "speculative fiction" instead, which tried to take off some of the onus of cheesiness. It never really took hold though, and I don't see very many places using the term any more.

And I agree that some of Atwood's writing definitely falls in the speculative mode. Don't foreget "Oryx and Crake", and "Year of the Flood." Both of them are great, but yeah, "Handmaid's Tale" is one of my all-time favorites, I've read it 4 or 5 times, and get something new each time.

[applesauce]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Tastes vary. Some like applesauce, some like bran.

We tho share similar tastes in lots of books. He is our major difference

For the record I loved A Handmaidens Tale. I did see the sci fi undertones, but techie it was not. So yes I can see some hard core sci fi fans saying it is not sci fi.

But I define sci fi as anything set into the future. I prefer post apocalyptic for my future, my husband Asimov world. Both huge on watching anything Star Trek, but would not read it in a pink fit.

applesauce

[GrannyGrump]

And why oh why? The local bookstore (and the only place available to buy paper books in English) on the military base where I work seems to think that "sci-fi" is ONLY Star Trek and Star Wars, and their clone cousins, with a few Terry Prachett titles thrown in for variety. I am not exaggerating to say that the sci-fi section is one section 6-feet long by 5-feet high. I assume the buyer is not interested in the genre.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by grannyGrumpy

And why oh why? The local bookstore (and the only place available to buy paper books in English) on the military base where I work seems to think that "sci-fi" is ONLY Star Trek and Star Wars, and their clone cousins, with a few Terry Prachett titles thrown in for variety. I am not exaggerating to say that the sci-fi section is one section 6-feet long by 5-feet high. I assume the buyer is not interested in the genre.

Have you tried talking to the buyer and educating them on how to improve the selection?
Apache

[GrannyGrump]

Apache, I wish I could. The buyer is located in Texas (we're in Japan), and they don't seem to pay much mind to my comments on their Customer Comments website. Sigh... It's a good thing I happen to enjoy re-reading old favorites from years (decades) past.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I think the contention comes in when the Science is less critical (or non-existent) to the story than the simple differences in history. To me without the science aspect it should not be considered SF.

Ah but some SF is about how societies are somehow different from our present day. For example H.G. Wells "Time Machine" was more about how things could turn out if the social classes of his day (the elite and the commoners) went their own ways down different paths. The Eloi descended from the elite upper crust of society and the Morlocks were the descendants of the commoners of Wells England. The actual Time Machine was just a vehicle by which Wells set his story up.

[BadBilly]

Originally Posted by grannyGrumpy

And why oh why? The local bookstore (and the only place available to buy paper books in English) on the military base where I work seems to think that "sci-fi" is ONLY Star Trek and Star Wars, and their clone cousins, with a few Terry Prachett titles thrown in for variety. I am not exaggerating to say that the sci-fi section is one section 6-feet long by 5-feet high. I assume the buyer is not interested in the genre.

If you're in Okinawa, this could be a problem. However, if you're near one of the larger cities, like Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, or Sapporo, it would be worth a trip out to the local bookstores. Kinokuniya, for example, used to have a good selection, even in the relatively sleepy backwater of Kanazawa. Not as convenient, but if you're really jonesing for a good English paper book, it might do. I wish e-books were an option when I was in Japan.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by crich70

Ah but some SF is about how societies are somehow different from our present day. For example H.G. Wells "Time Machine" was more about how things could turn out if the social classes of his day (the elite and the commoners) went their own ways down different paths. The Eloi descended from the elite upper crust of society and the Morlocks were the descendants of the commoners of Wells England. The actual Time Machine was just a vehicle by which Wells set his story up.

The Time Machine is not alternate history.

[MickiTee]

I also don't like the Foundation series, but enjoyed the Robot novels and his short stories.

One thing that has been totally ignored by this thread (as far a I can tell) is that Asimov's fiction output is just a part of what he published. If he wasn't writing fiction, especially from the 1950's onward, he was editing anthologies, collections and magazines or writing non-fiction. He's one of the most prolific writers I've ever enountered.

If memory serves, there are 3 titles, Opus 100, Opus 200 & Opus 300 which were written & published to mark the milestones of his having 100, 200 & 300 books published. (If I've got this wrong I'm sure someone here will correct me).

[MickiTee]

For those looking for a list of Asimov's short stories and their publication dates, try Asimov's page on the Fantastic Fiction website http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/isaac-asimov/.

Just keep scrolling down as this is towards the end of his very long entry.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by MickiTee

One thing that has been totally ignored by this thread (as far a I can tell) is that Asimov's fiction output is just a part of what he published. If he wasn't writing fiction, especially from the 1950's onward, he was editing anthologies, collections and magazines or writing non-fiction. He's one of the most prolific writers I've ever enountered.

If memory serves, there are 3 titles, Opus 100, Opus 200 & Opus 300 which were written & published to mark the milestones of his having 100, 200 & 300 books published. (If I've got this wrong I'm sure someone here will correct me).

No, you are correct.
In fact, for most of the 60's Asimov was a primarily a non-fiction writer.
Over his entire career, he wrote everything from textbooks to popular science to mysteries to SF to Scholarly Guides to both Shakespeare and the Bible.

Asimov's Guide to the Bible is a work by Isaac Asimov that was first published in two volumes in 1967 and 1969, covering the Old Testament and the New Testament (including the Catholic Old Testament, or deuterocanonical, books and the Eastern Orthodox Old Testament books, or anagignoskomena, along with the Fourth Book of Ezra), respectively. He combined them into a single 1296-page volume in 1981. They included maps by the artist Rafael Palacios.

Including numerous black-and-white maps, the guide goes through the books of the Bible in KJV order, explaining the historical and geographical setting of each one and the political and historical influences that affected it, as well as biographical information about the main characters. Asimov treats the secular aspects of the Bible with intellectual instead of theological commentary. His appendix "Guides to the Old and New Testament" include biblical verse, footnotes, references and subject indices.

To appreciate Asimov as a fiction writer you need to put him in context: he started in the age of the pulps, grew to prominence as a short story writer in Campbell's ASTOUNDING, skipped the new wave era of SF, and returned primarily as a novelist is the 80's and 90's. And then you have to add in Asimov the successful non-fiction writer.

Kinda hard to over-rate that kind of career.