software for writing books

[Freeshadow]

Educational licensed differ heavily.
While e. g. you can buy Manga Studio heavily discounted for students and are free to use keep using it for whenever with commercial use included, Adobe is absolutely strictly limited in these matters

[crich70]

I found an interesting program that can be used for organizing notes for writing projects over at Amazon the other day. It's called "my binder" and it's an app for Android which comes in handy as I have a mini-laptop that runs on Android OS that I'm reserving mostly for writing projects in future. You can create binders and label them and the 5 tabs that are found in each as well as emailing the contents of the tabs.

[Marseille]

I've always wished I could get OneNote's hierarchical structure, instant save and portability (multiplatform) in the same package as ywriter's word count logging. I also wish MS would get over themselves about OneNote not being for word processing with the many limitations on formatting that that mindset brings. I don't want a word processor. I do want to be able to set default paragraph options.

I'm lobbying mobilenoter (android/ios onenote app maker) to add word count logging, and while I'm not optimistic, I expect they'll be more open to input from a niche user than MS.

[VydorScope]

Yea, if MS would make Onenote multiplatform and put some of words tools in it, that would rock!

I use Evernote on my Mac.. not the same.

[Penforhire]

The OneNote group does seem to work at improvements and plug-ins. So you never know. And you can help steer them by adding your voice to the suggestions (http://connect.microsoft.com/onenote ).

Looking back on this thread, I think we're spoiled. I can't be the only one here who remembers banging on a typewriter that required white-out (ugh!) or correction paper to make changes. Back then we would have killed for Windows Notepad or Wordpad, lol. And woe unto us if our manuscripts got shuffled or dropped in a breezy area.

I'm not saying I don't want "the new shiny" as much or more than the rest of you but if you remember how some of our favorite older authors got their work done you'd gripe less and write more (that's a pep talk to myself).

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

I'm not saying I don't want "the new shiny" as much or more than the rest of you but if you remember how some of our favorite older authors got their work done you'd gripe less and write more (that's a pep talk to myself).

I do, but really try not to.

The other night... I wiped out my ENTIRE 88k word manuscript to book four. Back in the day of typewriters it was the equivalent of dropping it in the fire pit by accident. Not good!!!

What did I do? Eh, hit the undo key and got back to work. Gotta love computers at times

[Metal Mick]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

<snip>
Looking back on this thread, I think we're spoiled. I can't be the only one here who remembers banging on a typewriter that required white-out (ugh!) or correction paper to make changes. Back then we would have killed for Windows Notepad or Wordpad, lol.<snip>

Hi Penforhire,et al,

yes, what you say is true! I am told War and Peace was written out longhand, several times, by the author's wife.

And I recall the days of wondering how I'd ever fill a 360k floppy disk, Wordstar, and printers whose output was measured in characters per second, rather than pages per minute.

Writer's cramp is a thing of the past, though replaced (or renamed?) by RSI, I guess. Research required a trip to the library and a hope that the encyclopedia had the required information.

I rather like what we have now. Very much enjoying the tools at my disposal. With what I now have, I can put to one side my work while life demands I do other things, and more quickly pick up the traces when I return.

Cheers,

[Toxo]

Hello All,

I registered to make a post in this thread.

A disclaimer seems in order. I have never written a book of any nature but I keep having a draw to write, even if it ends with personal benefit only.

Thank you to everyone that posted regarding the various programs and the reasons you lean toward them.

Metal Mick, thank you for mentioning and reporting back about MyNovel 4. I was ready to purchase, but figured I would do a bit of hunting first to find what I could about the software. Forty dollars saved is a good thing, but I really thought the program would be what I needed.

With all the help it offers it appeared to be a good starting point for someone such as myself. I am leaning toward WriteWay as it appears that it will have a 50% discount at NaNoWriMo

In case there are some here that a seriously looking at Liquid Story Binder you can purchase it here at 44% off, and if you wait for a sale it will likely be 50-60% off.

Also, an alternative to MS Office is found at SoftMaker website, and the demo is located here.

I am not affiliated with any of these developers; just thought it might save people a little money.

Thank you all for the insight.

[Metal Mick]

Originally Posted by Toxo

<snip>

Metal Mick, thank you for mentioning and reporting back about MyNovel 4. I was ready to purchase, but figured I would do a bit of hunting first to find what I could about the software. Forty dollars saved is a good thing, but I really thought the program would be what I needed.

With all the help it offers it appeared to be a good starting point for someone such as myself. I am leaning toward WriteWay as it appears that it will have a 50% discount at NaNoWriMo

In case there are some here that a seriously looking at Liquid Story Binder you can purchase it here at 44% off, and if you wait for a sale it will likely be 50-60% off.

Also, an alternative to MS Office is found at SoftMaker website, and the demo is located here.

<snip>

Thank you all for the insight.

Hi Toxo,

re the info on MN, and other bits and pieces: you're welcome. Like you I thought MN offers a lot of things. It still does, but support from the developer isn't one of them. With a little effort it could be an excellent product, perhaps even best-of-breed.

All I can say about the LSB offer is that it is an out-and-out bargain. I'm now at 75k words in LSB, and it has never crashed - something MN was exceptionally prone to. LSB remains a delight to use and offers some terrific tools for the emerging writer.

Regarding Softmaker Office, I tried it once a good few years ago now, and thought it was okay. I am still looking for something that handles numbered and bulleted lists the way my much-loved Lotus WordPro did, and at the time I think SO was some way behind even OO (now Libre Office). That may no longer be the case. And so far as I can determine, there is still nothing for long documents that approaches WordPro.

Many thanks, Toxo for posting your thoughts and information. I appreciate it very much.

Cheers,

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Metal Mick

Hi Toxo,

re the info on MN, and other bits and pieces: you're welcome. Like you I thought MN offers a lot of things. It still does, but support from the developer isn't one of them. With a little effort it could be an excellent product, perhaps even best-of-breed.

All I can say about the LSB offer is that it is an out-and-out bargain. I'm now at 75k words in LSB, and it has never crashed - something MN was exceptionally prone to. LSB remains a delight to use and offers some terrific tools for the emerging writer.

Regarding Softmaker Office, I tried it once a good few years ago now, and thought it was okay. I am still looking for something that handles numbered and bulleted lists the way my much-loved Lotus WordPro did, and at the time I think SO was some way behind even OO (now Libre Office). That may no longer be the case. And so far as I can determine, there is still nothing for long documents that approaches WordPro.

Many thanks, Toxo for posting your thoughts and information. I appreciate it very much.

Cheers,

You really still like LSB? Wow, I honestly thought when I got to the end of this thread, your experience would be like mine--when it comes to LSB, I thought it was all hat and no cattle. I mean, yeah, it's flashy-looking, but the only thing about it that I ended up liking was the character generator, which was handy for characters that would wander in and out of scenes, if you didn't want to expend a lot of energy on them.

I spent the time and learned it; even contributed articles to the LSB wiki; but at the end of the day, it's easier to use Word, and its fabulous outlining and document mapping, over LSB. LSB makes things, in my opinion, horribly over-complex. I mean, what's the usefulness of a colored background (whoop) and a timeline that, unlike YWriter, doesn't even show you one character compared to another? The MindMap is hopelessly primitive, compared to something as simple as FreeMind (free). I found both the "Sequences" and the "Storyboard" not only useless, but gigantic timewasters. The builder? Meh. Still waiting to see for what possible use that would ever be better than a OneNote entry. The Story Outline was useful--but not better than Word, or FreeMind, for that matter.

I was actually shocked when I realized that I couldn't write (for example) five chapters, then put them into the Storyboard, move them around, and output the result. No, neither Storyboard nor Sequences works that way--it only allows you to reorder things that aren't WRITTEN yet. (Hunh?). Once they're written, you have to drag and drop them around in a Planner or a Builder. What's the POINT of having Storyboarding or Sequencing, then? And the idea that the sequencer is "different" than Storyboarding because the latter is for the whole book and Sequencing is for a scene...man, talk about PADDING. And it plays music? Equally big whoop. (I mean, who does not have desktop music these days?) "Journals," for your characters to write in? Character Dossiers, okay...I can see people using that, but again, if you have OneNote, why? The Gallery? Why, again? I'd bet that 99% of the people on MR know how to make directories and sub-dirs (oh, wait...folders), so why not just make a dir, stick a sub-dir in there for images...why go through all the brain-damage of putting images, that you already have on your computer, IN LSB? Honestly--and I mean that, I'm not being snarky--I just don't GET it.

I don't care that much about blowing the $40 or $45 or whatever it was, but I was irked at the giant waste of time. I recently used it--or tried to use it, like a dolt--for a series of short KB articles I was doing for our clientele (ebooking 101, that sort of short piece). I tried to output the RTF, which one would think would be simple, and the thing crashed. I was so frustrated I had a shrieking fit over at their forums. If you can't write a simple thousand or so words in 5 "chapters' and be able to put it together, then, as far as I'm concerned, it's a total waste of time and effort. I think, if someone needs software, just to "get in the zone," they should use YWriter, which still has more oomph than LSB and works GREAT.

People say that LSB "is complex," and I couldn't disagree more. I think it's incredibly simple--it's a front-end for a db with some text files attached. The problem is not that it does too much; it's that it doesn't. I think it's the kind of program that is perfect for "fritterers," people who love to be distracted by bright shiny things, but, hell, I loathe it. Every time I think about using it, I can feel my head getting tight. You must be a visual kind of person, Metal Mick; I'm not.

Sorry, don't mean to spew--but as as far as I am concerned, it is definitely lots of flash, lots of distractions, and very little productivity in the way of actual tools. Just my $.02. I have never tried Scrivener, but I understand that it, too, has this "all in one place" mindset, which I suppose I can see as useful. I don't know how (and I have four monitors) anyone can get anything done with LSB, myself. At the end of the day, you're putting chapters in RTF files. You can do the same thing in Word, use the document mapping and master document feature, and have fewer problems (don't even get me started about how much cleanup I had to DO on that RTF when I cut-and-pasted it into Word because I couldn't export it, due to the crashes). I'm glad it's working for you, but, MAN, that has not been my experience, and I've had it for two years.

Hitch

[Metal Mick]

Originally Posted by Hitch

You really still like LSB? Wow, I honestly thought when I got to the end of this thread, your experience would be like mine<snip>

I don't know why. You know nothing about me or what I'm actually using it for. And as you'll read, I'm unsure if you have any real knowledge of LSB.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I spent the time and learned it; even contributed articles to the LSB wiki;

They don't seem to be on the wiki anymore, so I can't assess the worth of them as an LSB user.

Originally Posted by Hitch

... but at the end of the day, it's easier to use Word, and its fabulous outlining and document mapping, over LSB. LSB makes things, in my opinion, horribly over-complex. I mean, what's the usefulness of a colored background (whoop) and a timeline that, unlike YWriter, doesn't even show you one character compared to another?

I actually use the Timeline, but can't fathom what you mean by this comment. I placed characters on the y-axis, time on the x-axis and had text where there were intersections. Y-axis and x-axis remain visible at all times; scrolling up sees some names disappear, but the order can be changed. So too, the labels on the x-axis to reflect more time-critical events.

Originally Posted by Hitch

The MindMap is hopelessly primitive, compared to something as simple as FreeMind (free). I found both the "Sequences" and the "Storyboard" not only useless, but gigantic timewasters. The builder? Meh. Still waiting to see for what possible use that would ever be better than a OneNote entry. The Story Outline was useful--but not better than Word, or FreeMind, for that matter.

The mindmap is a weak part of the application. It is very problematic to use.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I was actually shocked when I realized that I couldn't write (for example) five chapters, then put them into the Storyboard, move them around, and output the result. No, neither Storyboard nor Sequences works that way--it only allows you to reorder things that aren't WRITTEN yet.

This is wrong. I just tried it on my novel. It would seem your two years of ownership was ill-spent. I'd suggest that you are probably better off with Word, yWrite, OneNote, Freemind, and any other application you fancy, then the LSB mailing list will have to face one less person having a "shrieking fit" when he finds he can't do something.

Originally Posted by Hitch

<snip> I tried to output the RTF, which one would think would be simple, and the thing crashed. I was so frustrated I had a shrieking fit over at their forums<snip> I think it's the kind of program that is perfect for "fritterers," people who love to be distracted by bright shiny things, but, hell, I loathe it. Every time I think about using it, I can feel my head getting tight. You must be a visual kind of person, Metal Mick; I'm not.

Firstly, I am not a "fritterer", and I'm not certain what is meant by a "visual kind of person". I'd rather you didn't form judgments on me based on what software I use. I've striven for objectivity in this and other parts of MR and keep an open mind.

LSB creates and stores the chapters in rtf. I still have not had a crash. Nor have I seen a need to export from LSB into RTF. I just open the file...

Originally Posted by Hitch

Sorry, don't mean to spew

I remain unconvinced that this statement is true.

Originally Posted by Hitch

<snip>definitely lots of flash, lots of distractions, and very little productivity in the way of actual tools... I have four monitors<snip>Hitch

You don't like LSB, that's fine. I do. you and your monitors have a good day now.

[BookCat]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anything you've said about your experience, Mick, but I think it's horses for courses - or whatever the cliche is. I haven't used LSB, but I have used the Word Outline function quite extensively. I've also watched youtube vids about LSB and how to use it. My thoughts were that I could do most of the important things LSB appears to do so much more easily in Word.

I think large programs like LSB appeal to some, whereas the deceptive simplicity of Word appeals to others, especially those who have learned all of Word's 'hidden' abilities.

If you are happy with LSB, that's fine. I've read your reviews of other software such as MN so know that you're not someone who sticks to his guns whatever; instead you give a fair assessment of things as you find them.

Some of us are dedicated Word fans.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Metal Mick

I don't know why. You know nothing about me or what I'm actually using it for. And as you'll read, I'm unsure if you have any real knowledge of LSB.

Whoa! My post wasn't aimed at you, at all! Why did you take it that way? I said what I meant--I was really surprised when I got to the end of the thread, because you said you'd tried LSB, and I thought, when I got to the end, that your experience would be like mine--that's all I said.

They don't seem to be on the wiki anymore, so I can't assess the worth of them as an LSB user.

That was maintained by a woman...I can't recall her name (Roweena, Weena...something like that, on her site)...but I built the directory page, and contributed a number of articles. I did spend a lot of time with LSB, and I'm a fairly experienced software user on many levels, from old DB apps to Unix to writing my own website to using a fair number of SAAS apps to run my business. I'm not the steely-eyed-missile-man coder that a ton of MR members are, but I'm not a squishy end user, either.

I actually use the Timeline, but can't fathom what you mean by this comment. I placed characters on the y-axis, time on the x-axis and had text where there were intersections. Y-axis and x-axis remain visible at all times; scrolling up sees some names disappear, but the order can be changed. So too, the labels on the x-axis to reflect more time-critical events.

I'll even go back and look at it, but when I used it--which I admit, was more than 2 years ago, it was fairly non-functional. I think--and I freely state that the last time I looked at this was back then--you had to create it manually, whereas in Ywriter, it worked from the scenes you'd already built. I don't know if this is still accurate vis-a-vis LSB.

The mindmap is a weak part of the application. It is very problematic to use.

I'm glad we can agree on something! ;-)

This is wrong. I just tried it on my novel. It would seem your two years of ownership was ill-spent. I'd suggest that you are probably better off with Word, yWrite, OneNote, Freemind, and any other application you fancy, then the LSB mailing list will have to face one less person having a "shrieking fit" when he finds he can't do something.

You've conflated different things. I initially was talking about being able to move existing, typed chapters within the Storyboards or sequences and output the revised order (my "shriek" was something else altogether). Now, I specifically asked the developer about this when I first obtained LSB, and he said it couldn't be done. The discussion is on the Yahoo list, feel free to check. If he's changed it since then, good for him (I told him then that it should work that way, IMHO). But once the chapters were created, and populated with RTF files, 2 years ago, it could not be done. You could move chapters with headers only around, and then output THAT to a builder, and then you could "marry" existing chapters to a Builder (by copy & pasting them), but you could not, then, re-sequence an already typed story using a Storyboard.

What I "shrieked" about was that I attempted to do naught more than output 5 lousy "chapters" (honestly--not even 2K words, IIRC) from LSB into a single RTF file to bring into Publisher to make a handout for our clients. It crashed. I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything I did--seriously.

Firstly, I am not a "fritterer", and I'm not certain what is meant by a "visual kind of person". I'd rather you didn't form judgments on me based on what software I use. I've striven for objectivity in this and other parts of MR and keep an open mind.

Did I say you were? I did not. I said, in my opinion, LSB appeals to fritterers, in a general way. If I'd known you were going to take every single thing I said personally, I wouldn't have bothered to post, but my understanding of the thread was that people were interested in takes on different writing software. My experience with LSB was, has been, and remains, very annoying. And what do you mean, what do I mean about "a visual kind of person?" Hell, I think that's fairly straightforward. There are some people in the world who "think" mostly in images, in pictures. Filmmakers tend to be that type of person. Others think primarily in words--I'm that kind of person. I can easily see where LSB, with its "prettiness," and the galleries, storyboards with images, sequences (ditto), and everything else that uses pictures, can appeal to a visual kind of person. That's ALL I meant. In hindsight, I can see that addressing the post to you created some type of perceived personal attack that was not meant. I already know that people get upset when something they've chosen isn't liked by someone else, so I guess I should have addressed the post generally. (I once received a blistering email from a woman who was mad that I'd reviewed "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" as being much ado about nothing. {shrug}).

LSB creates and stores the chapters in rtf. I still have not had a crash. Nor have I seen a need to export from LSB into RTF. I just open the file...

Yes, I know...but I created several chapters. In order to "build" the manuscript, into a single book you have to, well, "build" it. It crashed. {More shrugging}. Of course, someone had to instantly insist that I "must have" typed the material in Word (the ubiquitous villain of the piece) and pasted it into LSB, which was absolutely not what I'd done. I'd typed the whole thing in LSB. (Nor do I understand that--why type something in Word and then paste it INTO your "writing program?" Don't get that perspective, either.)

I remain unconvinced that this statement is true.

Yes, thank you, you've made that abundantly clear.

You don't like LSB, that's fine. I do. you and your monitors have a good day now.

Ditto. As I said, had I known this would turn into such a conflagration, I shouldn't have bothered to post. I think that people should hear about both good AND bad experiences with software (and other things). Again, sorry that it seems to have gotten up your nose; it wasn't my intent--I was genuinely surprised.

In my experience, YWriter does almost everything that LSB does, if not more. I've been more productive using YWriter with Freemind and a directory full of images, or Word with Freemind and a directory full of images, than I have with LSB. LSB is very, very pretty. It certainly attempts to address a beginning point for EVERY type of writer--plotters, panters, novelists, screenwriters, etc. (I believe that the screenwriting aspect is the original concept behind the software--if you stand back and look at it, it's definitely oriented in that direction.) IN MY OPINION, which has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone here, it spends more time looking pretty than it does being very efficient. If one is a visual type of person, I think it can be very appealing, and, if you use many visual cues while writing, you may LOVE IT. If, like me, you are more "think in words and outlines," and a plotter, and don't use a lot of visual stimuli in writing, it may NOT appeal to you.

There? OK? Hopefully you can relax now.

Hitch

[BookCat]

If anyone reading this is a more visual person than Hitch, and likes mind-mapping, a slightly more visual, free, mind-mapping software is X Mind. Personally, I prefer to mind-map on paper, it's so much more direct.

Just an aside

[Metal Mick]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Whoa! My post wasn't aimed at you, at all! Why did you take it that way?<snip>Hitch

I gave a lot of thought and many rereads and drafts of my last post before I responded. I took exception to some of what you wrote because of the way you phrased your tirade, even the closing statement of your initial post is insulting. And if you say the program is perfect for "fritterers", and I have a licensed copy then your comments are directed at me. There isn't a lot of apparent care in how you phrase things. Read below:

Originally Posted by Hitch

That was maintained by a woman...(I once received a blistering email from a woman... what's the usefulness of a colored background (whoop)...I think it's the kind of program that is perfect for "fritterers," people who love to be distracted by bright shiny things...

Hopefully you can relax now

You don't seem to have read what I've written previously in this thread on LSB, nor your own words. Your final comment - as with many others in your second post - can easily be read as being phrased to denigrate or belittle. Is it any wonder I took exception? I could easily insert snide remarks into this response - as you have done - but I've taken care not to.

I don't mind if you or others don't like LSB, nor if their preference is to use several different applications instead of one: strong arguments can be made for either course. There's lots here who like Scrivener, WriteWay, and other applications and they are productive in them. That's fine by me: I'm certainly not an evangelist for LSB. I have written a lot in just a wordprocessor, using whatever features that I felt were useful, but I find the "novel-writing" software provides more for the way I work.

I only post my experiences (both good and bad) here so others have a bit more information than they otherwise might not get.

I last seriously used Word when it was known as Word 6 - even then it had lots of scope for customizing, even changing colours! I doubt that has changed at all, and it is certainly a part of LibreOffice. But that wasn't why I stopped using Word, nor did I take exception to the developers including that feature, even though it was of little use to me.

I guess the bottom line is that if you have a message to pass on, give it a little thought first, and leave the snide comments out.

Cheers,