Book piracy: Less DRM, more data - Page 2

Steven Lake · 01-11-2011, 03:51 PM

Wow, someone with a head on their shoulders. What's this world coming to?

Hopefully this catches on with the other big guys.

DaronFraley · 01-11-2011, 04:29 PM

Great article. I loved the first comment by Bill Higgins over on the website: "...make it easy for honest people to buy digital content".

I agree, 100%. Publishers will never totally get rid of piracy, no matter what they do. Making books easy to buy is the only sensible approach to take.

screwballl · 01-11-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

I've tried to get other publishers to join in, but it really hasn't been a successful mission. Even at a low- or no-cost offer, publishers seem reluctant to collect the data required to reveal the true impact of book piracy.

Of course not... they want to be blind to the fact that a few pirates are essentially free advertising and spurs more sales. They refuse to think of it as promotional material, instead believe they should be owed the money for what the pirates stole from them. If they actually saw the sales rise from a little pirating, they wouldn't be able to continue their ancient ways of bullying the customer into the prices and material THEY want you to buy.

Quote:

you can't say that every download is equivalent to a lost sale. Some are, but there's at least some likelihood that the pirated titles either spurred sales or represented a download that never would have resulted in a sale anyway.

The thick headed publishers think of every single download as a lost sale as reasoning behind keeping or strengthening DRM... In reality, you can figure that only a small portion is lost sales.
For ebooks, I would say maybe 1 out of every 50 downloads may be a lost sale nowadays. For music, 1 out of 500 is a likely number. For games/programs, it would be around 1 out of 100. These are just general numbers off the top of my head based on my long time experience as a computer tech, in reality they may be higher or lower, maybe by a lot.

When it came to items with physical media, there was always a small percentage, (I and guessing again) around 0.1-0.5%, that was pirated.
With digital media it is much easier to duplicate, but even now I still believe it is less than 1% of ownership, even for the most pirated stuff like music (mp3s).

sabredog · 01-11-2011, 06:11 PM

If geographic restrictions are removed then a lot of the "casual" pirates will purchase the books they want to but but cannot due to GR.

It is simply easier to look around the darknet than attempt to circumventing GR on an ebook they want to purchase and read, especially if GR is applied mid way through a series as what happened during the agency 5 leash tightening early last year.

Fastolfe · 01-12-2011, 02:21 AM

As someone who lives in a non English-speaking country, I can confirm that access to English literature is more than a little difficult. I have to special-order books at my local English bookshop (at special-order rate), wait for at least 4 weeks, and of course go downtown to get them when they've arrived.

Or I can Google around for a minute, download the books I want and stuff some cash in an envelope to send to non-dead authors. Guess what I do...

taming · 01-12-2011, 02:43 AM

An acquaintance of mine proudly told me that she had downloaded a collection of 700+ books from some darknet source. She wanted to read three of them. They were the only ones she put on her reader. This person has not purchased a paper book in years and years. No lost sales there--but big numbers for sure.

caleb72 · 01-12-2011, 03:07 AM

I don't have a problem with breaking DRM to get non-Kindle content on my Kindle and I don't have a problem with breaking DRM to get Kindle content on a non-Kindle application/device.

I will do it happily for my own purpose and I will not distribute the resulting file to anyone. I like authors.

The only factor in ebooks so far that has made me seriously consider piracy (ie surfing darknet for books) has been geographic restrictions and the sludge-like time it's taking for back-catalog to become available.

I haven't succumbed to this temptation thus far though. Although I may already be considered completely evil because of my personal view/take on DRM, I don't feel harried enough by lack of content to go that extra step down the hideously criminal path I tread. May the Lord have mercy on my soul!

Regards
Caleb

GA Russell · 01-12-2011, 03:44 AM

It appears to me that O'Leary is referring to new releases when he conceptualizes sales increasing after piracy.

Maybe most pirate downloads are of new releases. I'd like to see the data on that!

I'd also like to see the data on 1) backlist titles which are not available anywhere as eBooks legitimately (ie, Perry Mason), and 2) the price points of the frequently pirated titles.

I wonder, for example, how many $4.99 eBooks are pirated.

James_Wilde · 01-12-2011, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

gee do you think someone is actually starting to listen to us?

No, Kindlekitten, but it wouldn't hurt to send this interview to Sony, EMI, and the others, not to mention their industry organisations.

GeoffC · 01-12-2011, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The problem with the Nora Roberts example is that the particular example has little to do with DRM and more to do with geographic restrictions.

Correct.

Doug Huffman · 01-12-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoroso

Maybe, if enough customers vote with their wallets.

Same as RIAA customers, we are voting with our wallets! DRM protects low quality products worth stealing only. The publishers would convince their markets that they, the publishers, establish the value of the product. The Leviathan connives by enabling DRM.

caleb72 · 01-12-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Huffman

DRM protects low quality products worth stealing only.

Would low quality products be worth stealing?

Regards
Caleb

ProfCrash · 01-12-2011, 09:22 AM

I do run into a dilemma with piracy. I have bought all of the Harry Potter books in hard back and most in paper back. So I have paid for them twice. I would pay for them as an e-book if they were available as an e-book. A part of me wants to download them from the darknet knowing that I will buy them when they are offically released. The rest of me knows that it would be wrong to do so.

Many authors know that the lack of an available title leads to people downloading it from the darknet. Jim Butcher's novel Changes was released When Penguin and Amazon had their dust up. I was one of many Kindle users posting on Jim's webpage and board asking him to put whatever pressure he had on Penguin to get this resolved. Jim's response was that he had no power to do so and that we could download it from the darknet like many other folks were already doing. He knew that the dust up was screwing his bottom line.

IT is very, very frustrating

Forster · 01-12-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I do run into a dilemma with piracy. I have bought all of the Harry Potter books in hard back and most in paper back. So I have paid for them twice. I would pay for them as an e-book if they were available as an e-book. A part of me wants to download them from the darknet knowing that I will buy them when they are offically released. The rest of me knows that it would be wrong to do so.

Many authors know that the lack of an available title leads to people downloading it from the darknet. Jim Butcher's novel Changes was released When Penguin and Amazon had their dust up. I was one of many Kindle users posting on Jim's webpage and board asking him to put whatever pressure he had on Penguin to get this resolved. Jim's response was that he had no power to do so and that we could download it from the darknet like many other folks were already doing. He knew that the dust up was screwing his bottom line.

IT is very, very frustrating

It is very, very frustrating. I'm still mad about the Jim Butcher fiasco, lol.

I will say once someone gets pushed over to the darkside I suspect it becomes easier and easier to just stay there.

Pookeysgirl · 01-12-2011, 09:41 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I do run into a dilemma with piracy. I have bought all of the Harry Potter books in hard back and most in paper back. So I have paid for them twice. I would pay for them as an e-book if they were available as an e-book. A part of me wants to download them from the darknet knowing that I will buy them when they are offically released. The rest of me knows that it would be wrong to do so.

From a moral standpoint I don't see anything wrong with downloading from the darknet if you've already bought the books in paper form (twice). The author has made her money off your purchase and isn't really losing anything if you want a digital copy of the book you've already purchased.Which is just my opinion of course

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01-11-2011, 03:51 PM	#16
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,157 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Wow, someone with a head on their shoulders. What's this world coming to? Hopefully this catches on with the other big guys.

01-11-2011, 04:29 PM	#17
DaronFraley Enthusiast Posts: 31 Karma: 96 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle	Great article. I loved the first comment by Bill Higgins over on the website: "...make it easy for honest people to buy digital content". I agree, 100%. Publishers will never totally get rid of piracy, no matter what they do. Making books easy to buy is the only sensible approach to take.

01-11-2011, 06:11 PM	#19
sabredog Geographically Restricted Posts: 2,629 Karma: 14933353 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Device: Sony PRS-T3, Kindle Voyage, iPad Air2, Nexus7v2	If geographic restrictions are removed then a lot of the "casual" pirates will purchase the books they want to but but cannot due to GR. It is simply easier to look around the darknet than attempt to circumventing GR on an ebook they want to purchase and read, especially if GR is applied mid way through a series as what happened during the agency 5 leash tightening early last year.

01-12-2011, 02:21 AM	#20
Fastolfe Bookworm Posts: 98 Karma: 55796 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Sony PRS-650	As someone who lives in a non English-speaking country, I can confirm that access to English literature is more than a little difficult. I have to special-order books at my local English bookshop (at special-order rate), wait for at least 4 weeks, and of course go downtown to get them when they've arrived. Or I can Google around for a minute, download the books I want and stuff some cash in an envelope to send to non-dead authors. Guess what I do...

01-12-2011, 02:43 AM	#21
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	An acquaintance of mine proudly told me that she had downloaded a collection of 700+ books from some darknet source. She wanted to read three of them. They were the only ones she put on her reader. This person has not purchased a paper book in years and years. No lost sales there--but big numbers for sure.

01-12-2011, 03:07 AM	#22
caleb72 Indie Advocate Posts: 2,863 Karma: 18794463 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kindle	I don't have a problem with breaking DRM to get non-Kindle content on my Kindle and I don't have a problem with breaking DRM to get Kindle content on a non-Kindle application/device. I will do it happily for my own purpose and I will not distribute the resulting file to anyone. I like authors. The only factor in ebooks so far that has made me seriously consider piracy (ie surfing darknet for books) has been geographic restrictions and the sludge-like time it's taking for back-catalog to become available. I haven't succumbed to this temptation thus far though. Although I may already be considered completely evil because of my personal view/take on DRM, I don't feel harried enough by lack of content to go that extra step down the hideously criminal path I tread. May the Lord have mercy on my soul! Regards Caleb

01-12-2011, 03:44 AM	#23
GA Russell Montreal wins Grey Cup! Posts: 7,583 Karma: 31484197 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	It appears to me that O'Leary is referring to new releases when he conceptualizes sales increasing after piracy. Maybe most pirate downloads are of new releases. I'd like to see the data on that! I'd also like to see the data on 1) backlist titles which are not available anywhere as eBooks legitimately (ie, Perry Mason), and 2) the price points of the frequently pirated titles. I wonder, for example, how many $4.99 eBooks are pirated.

01-12-2011, 09:22 AM	#28
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	I do run into a dilemma with piracy. I have bought all of the Harry Potter books in hard back and most in paper back. So I have paid for them twice. I would pay for them as an e-book if they were available as an e-book. A part of me wants to download them from the darknet knowing that I will buy them when they are offically released. The rest of me knows that it would be wrong to do so. Many authors know that the lack of an available title leads to people downloading it from the darknet. Jim Butcher's novel Changes was released When Penguin and Amazon had their dust up. I was one of many Kindle users posting on Jim's webpage and board asking him to put whatever pressure he had on Penguin to get this resolved. Jim's response was that he had no power to do so and that we could download it from the darknet like many other folks were already doing. He knew that the dust up was screwing his bottom line. IT is very, very frustrating

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