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Old 07-15-2012, 03:04 PM   #31
Belfaborac
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It really does seem fairly clear to me, but as you say we'll all see soon enough.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:25 PM   #32
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I'd take those articles with a pinch of salt. It's not at all clear to me that the ECJ's ruling has as widespread applicability as they are suggesting. Time will tell.
What does your solicitor have to say about it?
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kumabjorn View Post
And this is why copyright laws needs to be modernized.
One such requirement beeing that if you want to transfer an eBook to someone you should be able to do so, as long as it is done in accordance with traditional transfer methods, ie. you don't maintain a copy on a retailer's server, in the cloud or on your computer (USB stick, MicroSD card etc).
One other issue that even if you've said you've deleted all the copies, there's no guarantee that you actually did other then your word. No way to know if you are truthful or not.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:21 PM   #34
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Doesn't mean we can't come up with a viable technological solution in the future. Technology has created this conundrum, perhaps it can also solve it.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BWinmill View Post
This can actually be a good thing when it comes to transferring books since there is a third party to ensure that the book has been removed from existing devices. But I only see this happening if there is a decision after there is a decision in the courts.
How can an online store check my 650 to see if I have removed a book I am supposed to be selling to someone else?
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:13 PM   #36
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Actually, thinking about it, I reckon this is all rather comical in a way - how many years ago did the multi-billion music industry come to a solution ?
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by plib View Post
If I go to "Manage My Kindle" on Amazon, one of the choices is "Delete from library". At Kobo one of the choices in "My Library" is "Delete". Smashwords has a "Remove from library" option. That takes care of the only stores I have accounts at, and are three major book retailers. Maybe Sony, B&N are different but I can certainly delete anything I've acquired and choose to give away.
Agree with you, it is up to the Ebook sellers to provide 'remove from library' or 'delete from account' options.
Last edited by Lynx-lynx; 07-15-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:33 PM   #38
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Just because they write it in the license doesn't mean it's enforceable. Has this ever been tested in court? Can anyone point me to a case specifically relating to ebooks?
Perhaps you should not have agreed to the terms of the agreement which you readily pressed...Integrity ..Its really as simple as that....
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #39
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Morally there is nothing wrong with doing it. As for "conditions" imposed by the publisher, they are unenforceable. There is no contract between them and you unless you agree to it. Buying the book does not constitute agreement.

Many existing printed book have conditions that prevent selling or even lending if the book has been rebound or had a new cover. A lot of the technical or reference books that I have purchased over the years are in breach of those conditions. Another unenforceable stipulation. If I own something, I can do with it as I please (providing it doesn't hurt someone etc.) and if I wish I can sell or lend it to another person.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:45 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Kumabjorn View Post
Doesn't mean we can't come up with a viable technological solution in the future. Technology has created this conundrum, perhaps it can also solve it.
Probably the only solution to this would be that you can't download, but that your book is in the cloud, accessible online only. Then a transfer could be verified.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:02 AM   #41
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Perhaps you should not have agreed to the terms of the agreement which you readily pressed...Integrity ..Its really as simple as that....
Maybe they shouldn't try to intimidate people with "click through" licenses that aren't legally enforceable.

Or perhaps if they're not really transferring full "property rights" that some proponents seem to think are so important then they shouldn't call it a sale.

Integrity...It's really as simple as that. Although it helps if you realize that integrity is a two way street.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:46 AM   #42
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One other issue that even if you've said you've deleted all the copies, there's no guarantee that you actually did other then your word. No way to know if you are truthful or not.
What happened to "innocent until proven otherwise"? There shouldn't be a need for me to prove that I have fulfilled my "obligations" in deleting something I have given away. The burden of proof is not on me but on the accusing part.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:03 AM   #43
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What happened to "innocent until proven otherwise"?
Went out the window in about 1999.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:13 AM   #44
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What does your solicitor have to say about it?
I haven't asked him. I'll do so when the opportunity arises.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:15 AM   #45
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Actually, thinking about it, I reckon this is all rather comical in a way - how many years ago did the multi-billion music industry come to a solution ?
They haven't. You can't sell digitally-downloaded music.
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