Advertisements in Ebooks-Good Idea?

[kennyc]

The problem is that advertisements and society have changed from the "good' ol' days." So has the media industry.

What you and your handlers are advocating stonetools is the same ol' dinosaur way.

My advice is to Look out because the meteor is coming.

[howyoudoin]

The opposition to ads is built upon the failure of the attempt to push ads within paperback novels. It's based on a sound precedent. It's based on being able to see the distinction between ads on the KSO and ads within the books themselves, and not pretending they are similar enough ideas with the tag-along implication of similar success.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by kennyc

My advice is to Look out because the meteor is coming.

I guess that is pretty hard when your collective head is buried firmly in the sand.

I do not expect a book or ebook to have advertising. Such a move will just make obtaining "clean" copies from other sources increase. But then I am sure "Alf's ad-block plus" will resolve that issue too.

[ekster]

And the way ads have progressed on Internet, I'd hate to see that happening in ebooks.
First it would be a small bar on the bottom. Then a small bar on the left. Then the bottom bar will get bigger. Then a third will be added on top. Then the one on the right will start flashing. Then the words will have little pop up messages with links. Then a fourth bar will be added in the middle. Then you will have the one on the top expand itself to full page and requiring you to scroll down and click on close before being able to read. Then the one in the middle will become animated and be constantly moving on your screen, and it'll have a tiny 'x' so that any attempt at clicking on that 'x' will result in a miss-click and a redirect to the ads' page.

And next thing you know, reading is a game of 'Can you spot the content?', followed by adblocker and popup blocker being a standard in a tablet/ereader.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by ekster

And next thing you know, reading is a game of 'Can you spot the content?', followed by adblocker and popup blocker being a standard in a tablet/ereader.

Hello ad-block plus by Alf.

Why should I be bloody well be bombarded by ads in a novel I am trying to read? Like the poster above has said, there is enough of this crap everywhere we look.

Another way publishers make a quick buck at the expense of their customers. Not that they cared a fig about those.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Apache

I have had a Glock jam on me before.
Apache

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

The opposition to ads is built upon the failure of the attempt to push ads within paperback novels. It's based on a sound precedent.

Actually, that's not a sound precedent at all. It's one data point. Ads have worked successfully in many other contexts, including the serialization of novels in ad-supported magazines. What's strange to me is the absolute opposition to the possibility of an ad-supported version, given the likelihood that an ad-free version will be available for those who hate ads. THAT I can't understand.

You should know that many people were just as vehement in their opposition to the KSO, until it was launched .

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Now I don't know what the model for ads in ebooks could work. What I doknow is that such a model exists- it just hasn't been found yet. The wise businessman to concieves of such a model -and the wise author who partners with that businessman - will make big money by catering to the ad-tolerant person.

For a hundred years, publishers & authors have been trying to figure out how to subsidize novels with ads--unsuccessfully. Readers will tolerate promotions of related materials, but not the kind of advertising that brings in outside dollars.

The ad-supported other media are flailing in the wake of free content available on the internet. *Nothing* indicates that ads will be more successful in books then they've been at the tops of webpages... where it takes thousands of viewers to be worth a few dollars. An ebook isn't read by thousands of viewers; it's usually read by one. Who won't be flipping back to the start to see the ad every time she opens the book. (Ad could appear before each opening? --sure, if you rewrote the firmware for every ereader the book's available for.)

Nobody's offered a list of advertisers lining up to pay $1-3 of the end price of a book for the right to place their ads inside, much less advertisers willing to pay the *entire* list price of an ebook for the ability to inflict ads on the readers.

Until the project has the support of the people with the money, it's a useless plan. Yes, there are readers who will tolerate ads. Quite a lot of them. But that's not the same as "readers who will buy the products advertised"--and advertisers know that. They count on widespread access at low costs-per-ad, which doesn't happen with novels.

DRM'd ebooks are sold on a one purchase=1-6 readers plan... and all of those readers share an account. Advertisers won't pay $1-6 to reach "up to six people."

[MikeB1972]

@stonetools

Can you tell me where the ad-free versions of magazines are?

You keep saying that if an ad supported ebook is released there will be an ad free version, somehow I can't see the publishers going to the effort of creating 2 versions of an ebook.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Actually, that's not a sound precedent at all. It's one data point. Ads have worked successfully in many other contexts, including the serialization of novels in ad-supported magazines. What's strange to me is the absolute opposition to the possibility of an ad-supported version, given the likelihood that an ad-free version will be available for those who hate ads. THAT I can't understand.

You should know that many people were just as vehement in their opposition to the KSO, until it was launched .

It's a very sound precedent, and the only one that is even remotely relevant. Serialisation of novels in magazines works with ads because the very act of serialisation breaks the flow, and thus the addition of ads there has no flow to break. If a novel ebook is serialised and sold in installments, then sure, stack on the ads. Addition of ads within a complete novel ebook will be bound by the failure of the attempt at inserting ads into paperback novels.

People were also vehement in their opposition to ads in paperback novels, and that is a more relevant precedent than the KSO model which is clearly a different model to inserting ads within the actual books themselves.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

For a hundred years, publishers & authors have been trying to figure out how to subsidize novels with ads--unsuccessfully. Readers will tolerate promotions of related materials, but not the kind of advertising that brings in outside dollars.

The ad-supported other media are flailing in the wake of free content available on the internet. *Nothing* indicates that ads will be more successful in books then they've been at the tops of webpages... where it takes thousands of viewers to be worth a few dollars. An ebook isn't read by thousands of viewers; it's usually read by one. Who won't be flipping back to the start to see the ad every time she opens the book. (Ad could appear before each opening? --sure, if you rewrote the firmware for every ereader the book's available for.)

Nobody's offered a list of advertisers lining up to pay $1-3 of the end price of a book for the right to place their ads inside, much less advertisers willing to pay the *entire* list price of an ebook for the ability to inflict ads on the readers.

Until the project has the support of the people with the money, it's a useless plan. Yes, there are readers who will tolerate ads. Quite a lot of them. But that's not the same as "readers who will buy the products advertised"--and advertisers know that. They count on widespread access at low costs-per-ad, which doesn't happen with novels.

DRM'd ebooks are sold on a one purchase=1-6 readers plan... and all of those readers share an account. Advertisers won't pay $1-6 to reach "up to six people."

Actually, they haven't been unsucccessful at all. Prior to 1950, most genre novels were serialized in ad-supported magazines. You sort of brush that aside, but its important to realize that the situation 1950 to the present date isn't the one true model for the distribution of novels, ordained from on high by the book gods.
FWIW, I think a lot of people with money are looking for ways to have ad-supported model for ebooks. After all,on MR, people bellyache day and night about the "unconscionably high price" of ebooks. Well, one way to offer a lower price is to have an ad-supported model. It's entirely possiblethat one of those people will succeed. "Impossible" just means "impossible till now".
Your points are well-taken. What you should realize is that if the other media don't solve the problem, they will go out of business, with nothing to replace them. I'm not sure that's something to look forward to.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

It's a very sound precedent, and the only one that is even remotely relevant. Serialisation of novels in magazines works with ads because the very act of serialisation breaks the flow, and thus the addition of ads there has no flow to break. If a novel ebook is serialised and sold in installments, then sure, stack on the ads. Addition of ads within a complete novel ebook will be bound by the failure of the attempt at inserting ads into paperback novels.

People were also vehement in their opposition to ads in paperback novels, and that is a more relevant precedent than the KSO model which is clearly a different model to inserting ads within the actual books themselves.

This may surprise you, but there may be folks who may not view ads as that big of a break in the action that would ruin their reading experience. Such people may welcome an ad-supported version, if brings them lower prices and the possibility of a good bargain. Again, I think most ad haters can't concieve of such people, but they exist.
It willo depend also on the kind of ads. Most people who object to ads think at once of the worst kind of web ads, but there are other, less obstrusive types of ads,. Again, its hard forme to understand why the ad haters resist the possibility of an ad-supported option, if an ad-free option remains available. I'd like some feedback on that.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by stonetools

This may surprise you, but there may be folks who may not view ads as that big of a break in the action that would ruin their reading experience. Such people may welcome an ad-supported version, if brings them lower prices and the possibility of a good bargain. Again, I think most ad haters can't concieve of such people, but they exist.
It willo depend also on the kind of ads. Most people who object to ads think at once of the worst kind of web ads, but there are other, less obstrusive types of ads,. Again, its hard forme to understand why the ad haters resist the possibility of an ad-supported option, if an ad-free option remains available. I'd like some feedback on that.

I'm arguing this from a strictly logical point of view, from the clear precedent that exists. If ads did bring down prices and consumers welcomed them, the ads in paperbacks experiment would have been successful to the point of being an industry standard. It isn't. Magazines have the ad supported model pinned down. Novels haven't. Clearly the segment of readers who prefer ad interrupted novels is insignificant enough for the publishers to drop the idea and not even attempt to cater to them by bringing out ad supported and discounted versions of paperbacks that they regularly publish in 'clean' form.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

I'm arguing this from a strictly logical point of view, from the clear precedent that exists. If ads did bring down prices and consumers welcomed them, the ads in paperbacks experiment would have been successful to the point of being an industry standard. It isn't. Magazines have the ad supported model pinned down. Novels haven't. Clearly the segment of readers who prefer ad interrupted novels is insignificant enough for the publishers to drop the idea and not even attempt to cater to them by bringing out ad supported and discounted versions of paperbacks that they regularly publish in 'clean' form.

^This

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

I'm arguing this from a strictly logical point of view, from the clear precedent that exists.

I'm not sure that any valid precedent exists for ebooks. When you look at advertising in print media, it is primarily seen in periodicals. Distribution is timely, circulation is known, and there is a lot of research into audience demographics. Print books are almost the polar opposite. So chances are that you don't see advertising in pbooks because advertisers aren't willing to pay. The opposition of readers is probably not a factor at all.

Ebooks are different though. Advertising can be inserted at the time of sale, or even at the time of reading. Advertisers can pay according to the actual circulation, number of views, or even click-throughs. And hey, you can link together a readers' purchase history to target your advertising even better.

That being said, I don't know if it's enough to bring down the price of books. Even if the readers of ebooks are worth more, the average reader would have to spend several times more on the advertised product than they are saving on the book.