Is Deus Ex Machina Really That Bad? - Page 2

ruskie · 05-06-2009, 03:06 AM

re: The Night's Dawn Trilogy

Loved it and love the ending as well. After all they were searching for something to save everyone and nobody knew what it's supposed to be. Maybe some people would have preferred a more scientific solution but to me it was a nice ending. I've read some of his other books as well. And unlike a lot of other books the endings were always unexpected. I like that. It made me reevaluate my thinking and so on. DEM is good unless overabused

netseeker · 05-06-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruskie

And unlike a lot of other books the endings were always unexpected. I like that. It made me reevaluate my thinking and so on. DEM is good unless overabused

Thank you very much - i felt already like a "outsider" here with my opinion that DEM doesn't have to be bad automatically in any case.

khalleron · 05-06-2009, 05:53 PM

DEM completely *ruined* The Dark Tower.

<grumble, grumble: almost thirty *years* i spent waiting for the end of that :grumble, grumble>

Now, LOTR, naw. The eagles were part of the story all along. In the Hobbit, it's a bit annoying, but it's a kid's book (and Tolkien's first novel, as well). I don't hold it to as high a standard.

But sure, any professional novelist ought to be able to avoid it by thinking ahead. Which is why TDT was *such* a disappointment.

netseeker · 05-06-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalleron

DEM completely *ruined* The Dark Tower.

<grumble, grumble: almost thirty *years* i spent waiting for the end of that :grumble, grumble>

Lol, i know what you mean. But actually it wasn't real DEM in the dark tower. Such an end was already foreshadowed because in some situations Roland thought that something wasn't happening to him for the first time. (sorry no examples, i would have to look for the passages in the pbooks)

khalleron · 05-06-2009, 07:24 PM

There were an awful lot of DEMs in the last book of The Dark Tower - the turtle that Stephen King wrote himself into the story *just* so he could give it to the characters (practically the definition of a DEM), the artist who showed up at the end who could alter reality - need something, draw it! Want it to go away? Erase it!

There were more, but I'm not going to relive the whole last dreadful book.

Errg.

netseeker · 05-07-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalleron

There were an awful lot of DEMs in the last book of The Dark Tower - the turtle that Stephen King wrote himself into the story *just* so he could give it to the characters (practically the definition of a DEM), the artist who showed up at the end who could alter reality - need something, draw it! Want it to go away? Erase it!

There were more, but I'm not going to relive the whole last dreadful book.

Errg.

I thought you just meant the often criticized end of the last book (after the fight against the red king). I wouldn't call the artist DEM, not after all the people/living objects with strange skills who occured in the previous books. If you call that DEM, then even the first book included DEM-elements.

ruskie · 05-07-2009, 05:48 AM

Frankly I tend to get so immersed into the story I become the characters. And generally don't see any DEM unless it's something seriously insane. I guess it also depends on one's world view. I consider there are other sentient beings out there and that there are some so powerful that one could consider them deities. And at time I see how even we ourselves can actually do some incredible things that some would consider a DEM. And I think a lot of times people don't notice DEM as well because it's so subtle.

It's all how it is incorporated into the story.

tompe · 05-07-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruskie

Frankly I tend to get so immersed into the story I become the characters. And generally don't see any DEM unless it's something seriously insane..

Seriously insane like the ending of Battlestar Galactica...

Moejoe · 05-07-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Seriously insane like the ending of Battlestar Galactica...

They could have done with taking out that

Spoiler:

, which almost ruined the whole series for me.

ruskie · 05-07-2009, 08:27 AM

I won't comment on TV shows... different medium.

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05-06-2009, 03:06 AM	#16
ruskie Shade Posts: 100 Karma: 546 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: U.LC.MW.Sol.Earth.EE.SI.LJ Device: Hanlin Jinke V3ext running OpenInkPot	re: The Night's Dawn Trilogy Loved it and love the ending as well. After all they were searching for something to save everyone and nobody knew what it's supposed to be. Maybe some people would have preferred a more scientific solution but to me it was a nice ending. I've read some of his other books as well. And unlike a lot of other books the endings were always unexpected. I like that. It made me reevaluate my thinking and so on. DEM is good unless overabused

05-06-2009, 05:53 PM	#18
khalleron Kate Posts: 1,682 Karma: 3165009 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Oregon, United States Device: Nexus 7 2013, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Forma	DEM completely ruined The Dark Tower. <grumble, grumble: almost thirty years i spent waiting for the end of that :grumble, grumble> Now, LOTR, naw. The eagles were part of the story all along. In the Hobbit, it's a bit annoying, but it's a kid's book (and Tolkien's first novel, as well). I don't hold it to as high a standard. But sure, any professional novelist ought to be able to avoid it by thinking ahead. Which is why TDT was such a disappointment.

05-06-2009, 07:24 PM	#20
khalleron Kate Posts: 1,682 Karma: 3165009 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Oregon, United States Device: Nexus 7 2013, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Forma	There were an awful lot of DEMs in the last book of The Dark Tower - the turtle that Stephen King wrote himself into the story just so he could give it to the characters (practically the definition of a DEM), the artist who showed up at the end who could alter reality - need something, draw it! Want it to go away? Erase it! There were more, but I'm not going to relive the whole last dreadful book. Errg.

05-07-2009, 05:48 AM	#22
ruskie Shade Posts: 100 Karma: 546 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: U.LC.MW.Sol.Earth.EE.SI.LJ Device: Hanlin Jinke V3ext running OpenInkPot	Frankly I tend to get so immersed into the story I become the characters. And generally don't see any DEM unless it's something seriously insane. I guess it also depends on one's world view. I consider there are other sentient beings out there and that there are some so powerful that one could consider them deities. And at time I see how even we ourselves can actually do some incredible things that some would consider a DEM. And I think a lot of times people don't notice DEM as well because it's so subtle. It's all how it is incorporated into the story.

05-07-2009, 08:27 AM	#25
ruskie Shade Posts: 100 Karma: 546 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: U.LC.MW.Sol.Earth.EE.SI.LJ Device: Hanlin Jinke V3ext running OpenInkPot	I won't comment on TV shows... different medium.

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