It really is a shame that my e-reader doesn't have an SD slot

[bgalbrecht]

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to comment in this thread, except to say that for people who want to buy an eInk reader, have more than a couple of GB of ebooks, and would like to maintain all of their books on the reader so that they can choose what to read without relying on wifi connections (or a PC) that may not be accessible in their current location, there are really few companies selling in the US market today that have such a reader. I think Kobo may be the only one now, now that Sony dropped out of the US market, and B&N dropped the SD slot in their latest reader. It is true that very few people could ever read all of the books completely in their library if they have more than 4 GB of ebooks, but that's not necessarily the goal of the people with the desire to own an eInk reader with a SD card slot. I don't understand why it is necessary for people who don't find a SD card slot useful need to mock those who do, or vice versa. My guess is the addition of the slot probably costs about $3-5 to the cost of the device, so I wouldn't expect to see one in a device that's meant to be as cheap as possible, but I would expect to see it on a premium device like the Aura HD or H2O.

[odiakkoh]

+1 to what bgalbrecht said

[eschwartz]

The Kindle Voyage is a premium device. Oh well.

No, my expectation is that it will be put into a device that caters to fringe groups and nitpickers.

Although those devices will also appeal to others, I am sure. (For other reasons.)

[Shades]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The Kindle Voyage is a premium device. Oh well.

No, my expectation is that it will be put into a device that caters to fringe groups and nitpickers.

Although those devices will also appeal to others, I am sure. (For other reasons.)

I can't name a single person that I know that wouldn't want the option of expandable storage in any of their entertainment electronics and yes that would include phones, ereaders and tablets.

I'm honestly not sure why you're arguing against a feature that can only be a boon to the consumer. There is no downside to having an SD slot. It's there if you ever need it, but if you don't you still have WiFi/3G/LTE. It's not as if the slot takes away any of the other features.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Shades

I can't name a single person that I know that wouldn't want the option of expandable storage in any of their entertainment electronics and yes that would include phones, ereaders and tablets.

I'm honestly not sure why you're arguing against a feature that can only be a boon to the consumer. There is no downside to having an SD slot. It's there if you ever need it, but if you don't you still have WiFi/3G/LTE. It's not as if the slot takes away any of the other features.

You are talking about a Kindle. The decision to not put an SD card in it is deliberate, not a cost saving. Would it attract more people to buy a Kindle? Sure, but not for the reasons Amazon wants. SD card is only useful for DRM free content so that it can be used for multiple devices - otherwise a large (e.g. 16 gb) internal storage would be fine.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You are talking about a Kindle. The decision to not put an SD card in it is deliberate, not a cost saving. Would it attract more people to buy a Kindle? Sure, but not for the reasons Amazon wants. SD card is only useful for DRM free content so that it can be used for multiple devices - otherwise a large (e.g. 16 gb) internal storage would be fine.

No. DuckieTigger, Shades is talking about an Ereader. Not necessarily a kindle.

And for the many people who make the exact same leap you do...If I talk about automobiles I am not necessarily talking about a Chevrolet. No matter how much you and they cannot conceive that there are other possibilities.

My wife and I had Ereaders before Amazon got into the game.

[Greg Anos]

We're talking a philosophical difference here.

Are you a "just-in-timer" or a "inventory" type of person?

One is not better than another.

Personally, I'm an "inventory" type. I demand external storage (a SD chip or other external device) in my computers. All of them. It's make-or-break to me. And make no mistake about it, all your mobile devices are computers.

You see, in this day and age, I consider the device to be the throwaway, not the data. I prefer to be able to transfer the most valuable part (the data) with the least fuss and bother. It gets no simpler that popping out a chip from one device and plugging it into another. 5 seconds and I'm back in business.

Ideally, I'd like to have all my data on one chip, and put a copy of the data on every device, whether or not it is capable of using it! Data protection by data redundancy, with no worries about which data is on which chip. (Plus on site and off-site back-ups. But then again I've been a computer programmer for 35 years...)

<Shrug> Everybody makes their own choices...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The Kindle Voyage is a premium device. Oh well.

No, my expectation is that it will be put into a device that caters to fringe groups and nitpickers.

Although those devices will also appeal to others, I am sure. (For other reasons.)

My expectation is that Amazon will NEVER put in a card slot no matter how many people want such. They do so because of the cloud. Amazon expects people to buy eBooks from them and to download what they need when they need it. Amazon does not expect customers to keep all of their eBooks on the Kindle at one time.

An SD slot is not for fringe groups or nitpickers. An SD slot can be very useful. It means you can store eBooks on it and use it to go from one Reader to another without having to have a computer handy. I have an card slot and I've not used it. But that doesn't mean I never will. So please don't insult people just because they want a card slot on a Reader.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Phogg

No. DuckieTigger, Shades is talking about an Ereader. Not necessarily a kindle.

Yes he was exactly talking about a Kindle, since he specifically included the Kindle Voyage mentioning in the post he replied to. What he says makes absolutely no sense if he wants to include a Kindle in ereader, or an iPhone as a smartphone.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Shades

I can't name a single person that I know that wouldn't want the option of expandable storage in any of their entertainment electronics and yes that would include phones, ereaders and tablets.

I'm honestly not sure why you're arguing against a feature that can only be a boon to the consumer. There is no downside to having an SD slot. It's there if you ever need it, but if you don't you still have WiFi/3G/LTE. It's not as if the slot takes away any of the other features.

Why would I want all Kindles for example to cost $5 more?

There would have to be a 0.0000000000001% or greater chance that I would use it.

But ultimately it is all about what the manufacturer thinks.The manufacturers have to factor in development and support costs as well.

And all to cater to fringe groups.

So yes, there is an explicit cost to the buyer.

Remember that the Kindle used SD cards, until it became obvious that nobody actually used them (okay, probably an insignificant number used them which is not a compelling reason to modify an entire hardware line). Also I believe performance degradation was mentioned.

I am not so sure what is so difficult to grasp about my position: NO ereader *needs* the extra space, and ANY ereader will only find that space being used by fringe groups. There is nothing wrong with being a fringe group, simply do not take it for granted that any company is going to cater to you in devices meant for a wider audience.

Ereaders are NOT smartphones or tablets or PCs, which is to say, general multipurpose devices. They are meant for a specific limited purpose, i.e. reading ebooks, and the only memory they *need* is that which helps them fulfill their goal, and it is either unrealistic or a fringe need, depending, to need more than 4 GB.

MP3 players are also targeted, limited devices, which need memory for only one thing -- audio. The difference is, audio takes up much more room.

General multipurpose devices, be they tablets, smartphones, desktops, or laptops, need expandable space because their intrinsic purpose demands it -- they are meant to be used for a wide variety of things, and maybe not smartphones/tablets but certainly PCs are actually meant for data storage purposes, which is why they have the most memory of any devices out there...

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

My expectation is that Amazon will NEVER put in a card slot no matter how many people want such. They do so because of the cloud. Amazon expects people to buy eBooks from them and to download what they need when they need it. Amazon does not expect customers to keep all of their eBooks on the Kindle at one time.

Amazon does so because they actually know what their customers want, and very few of them give a darn about SD slots. You keep on insisting that droves of Kindle owners want SD slots, but have yet to provide any proof OR rationale.

Amazon is all about giving the customer what the customer wants -- it is rather what they are known for.

People expect people to download what they need when they need it, and Amazon caters to them.

But wait -- it gets better. Amazon ALSO provides enough builtin storage to satisfy the people who want 3500 books on their Kindle at any given time, which is the kind of person I am, and I have never not been able to find a book I wanted to read. Between my ~200-item TBR, my collection of hundreds of old favorites that I might want to refer back to at any given time, and every book I have read in the last year and have not gotten around to deleting yet, plus a random selection of miscellaneous everything, I am confident that there will never EVER be a given moment when I really want to read a specific book, can't, and feel even slightly unhappy as a result.

(If so, I can most likely download it either from Dropbox or the Kindle Cloud.)

As long as I rotate in some new books at least once a year, I am thus totally covered.

This from someone whose tastes at any given moment range from eclectic to outrageous, who is usually in the middle of at least twelve books at any given time (spanning both ebooks and pbooks) and has a LOT of favorites he likes to refer back to and quote randomly at random times, or suddenly gets struck with the passing fancy to read.

An SD slot is not for fringe groups or nitpickers. An SD slot can be very useful. It means you can store eBooks on it and use it to go from one Reader to another without having to have a computer handy. I have an card slot and I've not used it. But that doesn't mean I never will. So please don't insult people just because they want a card slot on a Reader.

In order for the value of that to reach 0.00000000000000000000000000000001¢, I would have to change ereaders somewhat more frequently than once every several years -- in fact, I'd have to be changing ereaders at least once a month.

How often do you change your ereader, that it actually concerns you that you need to transfer your entire library to a new device potentially at any moment?

I remember a very similar claim at one point, where someone said ereaders are required (per Word of Consumer) to have SD slots... so people can insert their library into the ereaders on display at Best Buy.


So... I really do think I will roundly insult anyone who crosses the line from wanting an SD slot on their ereader, to assuming they are anything but a fringe group undeserving of the full attention of the major brands.
You can usually tell who they are -- they are the ones issuing proclamations against the Kindle for not having SD slots.

[JSWolf]

[QUOTE=eschwartz;2996857]Amazon does so because they actually know what their customers want, and very few of them give a darn about SD slots. You keep on insisting that droves of Kindle owners want SD slots, but have yet to provide any proof OR rationale.[/quoter]

I will say that Amazon has no clue what customers want. If Amazon had a clue, then the Kindle would be a much better line of Readers then it is now.

Not everybody wants the same things, but a LOT do want these features...

More customizable margins (smaller), more customizable line height (smaller), more font choices (and side loaded fonts too), SD card slot (though less do want that then the more options for better on screen presentation).

Amazon is all about giving the customer what the customer wants -- it is rather what they are known for.

Amazon is known for giving customers what Amazon wants.

People expect people to download what they need when they need it, and Amazon caters to them.

Yes, a lot do expect this because it all they get from Amazon.

But wait -- it gets better. Amazon ALSO provides enough builtin storage to satisfy the people who want 3500 books on their Kindle at any given time, which is the kind of person I am, and I have never not been able to find a book I wanted to read. Between my ~200-item TBR, my collection of hundreds of old favorites that I might want to refer back to at any given time, and every book I have read in the last year and have not gotten around to deleting yet, plus a random selection of miscellaneous everything, I am confident that there will never EVER be a given moment when I really want to read a specific book, can't, and feel even slightly unhappy as a result.

If Amazon is so all knowing, then why in hell did they give 2GB to the PW1 originally and then up it to 4GB? They did that because Amazon was WRONG about the amount of storage when they decided to go for the cheaper option.

(If so, I can most likely download it either from Dropbox or the Kindle Cloud.)

As long as I rotate in some new books at least once a year, I am thus totally covered.

This from someone whose tastes at any given moment range from eclectic to outrageous, who is usually in the middle of at least twelve books at any given time (spanning both ebooks and pbooks) and has a LOT of favorites he likes to refer back to and quote randomly at random times, or suddenly gets struck with the passing fancy to read.

Not all Readers in use have WiFi. Most these days do. So for the ones without WiFi, a card slot is a good thing to have when you are away from home without USB access to your computer.

In order for the value of that to reach 0.00000000000000000000000000000001¢, I would have to change ereaders somewhat more frequently than once every several years -- in fact, I'd have to be changing ereaders at least once a month.

Just because you don't want a card slot does not mean that others do not as well. Knowing the way Amazon works, it's very possible there's space for a card slot on the motherboard(s) for a card slot and if that is the case, it would be very cheap to add in a proper card slot.

How often do you change your ereader, that it actually concerns you that you need to transfer your entire library to a new device potentially at any moment?

This year, I was used a 650 and moved to a T1 and recently I moved to an H2O. So I had to move eBooks over twice this year.

I remember a very similar claim at one point, where someone said ereaders are required (per Word of Consumer) to have SD slots... so people can insert their library into the ereaders on display at Best Buy.

I have to say that that line of reasoning is just silly. The SD card slot is for expanding storage, not loading every eBook owned on a store demo Reader.

So... I really do think I will roundly insult anyone who crosses the line from wanting an SD slot on their ereader, to assuming they are anything but a fringe group undeserving of the full attention of the major brands.
You can usually tell who they are -- they are the ones issuing proclamations against the Kindle for not having SD slots.

To be honest, I do think that if Amazon made a Voyage with a card slot and the price was the same or just a few dollars more, it would sell better then one without. People will see it a future proofing for storage even if they don't use it. As long as they thing they might, it would sell. A fringe group is one that wants something silly that is really not that useful and a card slot is potentially more useful then fringe.

Take the Voyage, add in sound and TTS, card slot, better configuration on margins, line height, fonts and you'd have a much better device. Make a second voyage at 7" and I think it would sell as well for those who want a larger screen Kindle, but not an obsolete DX.

[please55]

It's not a straightforward answer but for me the option is always welcome - always. I can't think of single reasonable reason not to have one.

a) The expansion slot is a nod towards the future. A nod towards interoperability. A nod towards obsolescence. A nod towards uncertainty - somethings some groups have to be more aware of than others.

b) It's a nod towards people of variable income who might not always have access to a computer or the internet.

c) It's a nod towards sharing without a middle man. And many more things.

I wouldn't be quick to assume the success of Amazon has a lot to do with them understanding people.

As much as I like ebooks, they are one of the must kludgy techs this past decade and they barely move the needle in terms of capability vs actual books especially on e-ink devices. So far they are still mostly analogue transfers rather than a rethink of what is possible with current technology.

But the original point of the thread is true. I probably have too many books

[speakingtohe]

I would pay $5 more for an SD slot. I don't have to have one, and actually don't need one now that I have 4 T3's, but $5 or even $10 for an extra feature that I would probably use doesn't seem exorbitant.

Some people spend more than that on takeout coffee or happy meals, which don't last that long.

Helen

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I will say that Amazon has no clue what customers want. If Amazon had a clue, then the Kindle would be a much better line of Readers then it is now.

The fact that the Kindle is the best-selling ereader worldwide would argue against that -- I think AMazon knows what it is doing.

Not everybody wants the same things, but a LOT do want these features...

More customizable margins (smaller), more customizable line height (smaller), more font choices (and side loaded fonts too), SD card slot (though less do want that then the more options for better on screen presentation).

No, the vast majority do not give a darn. Then there is you, who is loud and vociferous and tries to seem like a lot of people in one.

Amazon is known for giving customers what Amazon wants.

It is Amazing how well the two coincide.

Yes, a lot do expect this because it all they get from Amazon.

It is the other way around...

If Amazon is so all knowing, then why in hell did they give 2GB to the PW1 originally and then up it to 4GB? They did that because Amazon was WRONG about the amount of storage when they decided to go for the cheaper option.

No one really knows why Amazon did so, but there are theories ranging from:
4GB cards are now just as cheap as 2GB cards, to
Amazon is intending on ramping up comic sales, which need more space.

Either theory is more reasonable.

Not all Readers in use have WiFi. Most these days do. So for the ones without WiFi, a card slot is a good thing to have when you are away from home without USB access to your computer.

OK then, I agree. Any ereader without WiFi needs to have an SD slot. Now go find me one. Maybe even one made and sold by Amazon.

Just because you don't want a card slot does not mean that others do not as well. Knowing the way Amazon works, it's very possible there's space for a card slot on the motherboard(s) for a card slot and if that is the case, it would be very cheap to add in a proper card slot.

Maybe. And maybe it would still cost money for the card slot, and bulk up the device even if the motherboard DOES have a socket to connect to.

And since when do you "know the way Amazon works"???

This year, I was used a 650 and moved to a T1 and recently I moved to an H2O. So I had to move eBooks over twice this year.

And I still don't think it is too much burden to transfer them with calibre while AFKing.

To be honest, I do think that if Amazon made a Voyage with a card slot and the price was the same or just a few dollars more, it would sell better then one without. People will see it a future proofing for storage even if they don't use it. As long as they thing they might, it would sell. A fringe group is one that wants something silly that is really not that useful and a card slot is potentially more useful then fringe.

Take the Voyage, add in sound and TTS, card slot, better configuration on margins, line height, fonts and you'd have a much better device. Make a second voyage at 7" and I think it would sell as well for those who want a larger screen Kindle, but not an obsolete DX.

Sure it would sell. But the people who would buy it are mostly people who would otherwise buy the one without... so what benefit is there in selling a device at break-even cost or a loss, if it doesn't generate more ebook sales?