copyright question

bobcdy · 07-23-2011, 01:47 PM

As usual when I plan to submit an epub of a book with perhaps questionable copyrights, I fall back on asking for input at MobilRead.

The book I am planning to work on is a reprint of a 4-part serial in a Street & Smith mag of 1916. The reprint was published in 1975, and lists Street & Smith's copyright and also the 1975 publisher's copyright notice. Although the book's illustrations are new and clearly still in copyright, I don't understand how the publisher can claim copyrights for the text.

Does anyone have enough understanding of US copyright law to help me decide if the text is public domain?
Bob

HarryT · 07-23-2011, 02:26 PM

If it was published in 1916 it's unquestionably in the US public domain. You need to make sure that you don't include any changes made in the 1975 reprint.

dwig · 07-23-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcdy

...I don't understand how the publisher can claim copyrights for the text...

They can claim anything, but what copyright they posses may differ from the claim.

While they can't have a copyright to the words from the original publication, they can copyright:

any changes in the form of fixes (typos, misspellings, ...), modernizations, ... to the wording
any artistic design of the book (page layout, typography, ...)

bobcdy · 07-23-2011, 05:09 PM

HarryT/dwig: Thanks for the rapid replies. Your opinions are about what I had thought; the problem, however, is knowing if there are subtle changes from the original. If I had access to the 1916 mag then I would have scanned it rather than the book. Without access, then I have no way of knowing if the chapter headings and lengths are the same or if there were changes in wording, punctuation, italics, and/or spelling. I noticed two incorrect (or obsolete) spellings that I changed but otherwise I just don't know what the original looked like. One thing I am sure of is the book chapter headings are composed of an odd font, but of course with a epub I won't be using the book font anyway.
Bob

HarryT · 07-23-2011, 10:27 PM

Yes, that's the problem. Realistically, I don't think you can use this source.

bobcdy · 07-23-2011, 11:12 PM

HarryT
I suppose I won't be able to post it, although there is nothing about altering the text in any way in the Introduction to the reprint. The 1975 copyright is probably by his son because the last name is the same as the author, who thus seems to be copyrighting a 1916 serial pub simply because it now is in book form.

Elfwreck · 07-23-2011, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcdy

As usual when I plan to submit an epub of a book with perhaps questionable copyrights, I fall back on asking for input at MobilRead.

The book I am planning to work on is a reprint of a 4-part serial in a Street & Smith mag of 1916. The reprint was published in 1975, and lists Street & Smith's copyright and also the 1975 publisher's copyright notice. Although the book's illustrations are new and clearly still in copyright, I don't understand how the publisher can claim copyrights for the text.

Does anyone have enough understanding of US copyright law to help me decide if the text is public domain?
Bob

Very likely, the text is in the public domain and only the formatting and images were copyrighted in 1975. Publishers are fond of putting copyright notices on reprints of public domain texts (open any book of Shakespeare's works for details on how that works).

I don't believe any court case has ever been based on "they copied my updated version with a few different words and different punctuation" when the text itself was in the public domain.

mrmikel · 07-24-2011, 07:04 AM

If you are interested in the US copyright, you can go to:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwe...cal&PAGE=First
and look up books after 1977 by name or title. In the listing is the nature of the copyright claim. That may help you decide if you can use the source. Often it is new front matter and end matter, which you can be careful to skip.
In this case, they may have added a table of contents and index which you will probably have to skip. But indexes are not so useful in an ebook because the pages keep changing and if the ebook process creates a e table of contents I can't see how that would be a problem anyone could sue over.

bobcdy · 07-24-2011, 02:06 PM

Elfwreck, mrmikel: Thanks for the opinion. Perhaps it is ok for me to finish the epub and submit it to MobilRead. As for Table of Contents, the book has that, but I would actually add my own based on headings without using that of the book, and there is no index. There are illustrations and introduction that would not be used.

07-23-2011, 01:47 PM	#1
bobcdy Fanatic Posts: 527 Karma: 1048576 Join Date: May 2009 Device: bebook; prs-950; nook simple touch; HTC Jetstream tablet	copyright question As usual when I plan to submit an epub of a book with perhaps questionable copyrights, I fall back on asking for input at MobilRead. The book I am planning to work on is a reprint of a 4-part serial in a Street & Smith mag of 1916. The reprint was published in 1975, and lists Street & Smith's copyright and also the 1975 publisher's copyright notice. Although the book's illustrations are new and clearly still in copyright, I don't understand how the publisher can claim copyrights for the text. Does anyone have enough understanding of US copyright law to help me decide if the text is public domain? Bob

07-23-2011, 05:09 PM	#4
bobcdy Fanatic Posts: 527 Karma: 1048576 Join Date: May 2009 Device: bebook; prs-950; nook simple touch; HTC Jetstream tablet	HarryT/dwig: Thanks for the rapid replies. Your opinions are about what I had thought; the problem, however, is knowing if there are subtle changes from the original. If I had access to the 1916 mag then I would have scanned it rather than the book. Without access, then I have no way of knowing if the chapter headings and lengths are the same or if there were changes in wording, punctuation, italics, and/or spelling. I noticed two incorrect (or obsolete) spellings that I changed but otherwise I just don't know what the original looked like. One thing I am sure of is the book chapter headings are composed of an odd font, but of course with a epub I won't be using the book font anyway. Bob Last edited by bobcdy; 07-23-2011 at 05:12 PM.

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07-23-2011, 02:26 PM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	If it was published in 1916 it's unquestionably in the US public domain. You need to make sure that you don't include any changes made in the 1975 reprint.

07-23-2011, 10:27 PM	#5
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Yes, that's the problem. Realistically, I don't think you can use this source.

07-23-2011, 11:12 PM	#6
bobcdy Fanatic Posts: 527 Karma: 1048576 Join Date: May 2009 Device: bebook; prs-950; nook simple touch; HTC Jetstream tablet	HarryT I suppose I won't be able to post it, although there is nothing about altering the text in any way in the Introduction to the reprint. The 1975 copyright is probably by his son because the last name is the same as the author, who thus seems to be copyrighting a 1916 serial pub simply because it now is in book form.

07-24-2011, 07:04 AM	#8
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	If you are interested in the US copyright, you can go to: http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwe...cal&PAGE=First and look up books after 1977 by name or title. In the listing is the nature of the copyright claim. That may help you decide if you can use the source. Often it is new front matter and end matter, which you can be careful to skip. In this case, they may have added a table of contents and index which you will probably have to skip. But indexes are not so useful in an ebook because the pages keep changing and if the ebook process creates a e table of contents I can't see how that would be a problem anyone could sue over.

07-24-2011, 02:06 PM	#9
bobcdy Fanatic Posts: 527 Karma: 1048576 Join Date: May 2009 Device: bebook; prs-950; nook simple touch; HTC Jetstream tablet	Elfwreck, mrmikel: Thanks for the opinion. Perhaps it is ok for me to finish the epub and submit it to MobilRead. As for Table of Contents, the book has that, but I would actually add my own based on headings without using that of the book, and there is no index. There are illustrations and introduction that would not be used.

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