MobileRead Administration: New years reading categories

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

So will you be starting a brand new Administration Thread for 2012 since the line up will be changing?

I think it would be nice to have a fresh start with the new line up, and include any other decisions we make/made in 2011.

Well, the actual categories won't change, only the order will be slightly modified. HomeInMyShoes made some good points about putting some distance between the Science Fiction and Fantasy months, the Mystery/Crime, Thriller/Suspense, and Horror months, and spacing the two Classic months 6 months apart. I'll get up with Elfwreck and announce the official lineup in the Book Club Selections List sticky.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Well, the actual categories won't change, only the order will be slightly modified. HomeInMyShoes made some good points about putting some distance between the Science Fiction and Fantasy months, the Mystery/Crime, Thriller/Suspense, and Horror months, and spacing the two Classic months 6 months apart. I'll get up with Elfwreck and announce the official lineup in the Book Club Selections List sticky.

Okay. Anything that makes the new order easy to find!

[JSWolf]

It is unfair to have the same category twice. No category should be more then once. It was a mistake to have two classic and because of that we have to keep on paying for it? Besides, classic is not a proper category.

Can anyone define what classic is that fits in every single case? I don't think so because it's a subjective thing. We should have categories where you can go yes, that fits or no that doesn't fit. Classic isn't like that. There's no reason to have it twice when we have enough hassles with it even once. It is the least liked category after romance.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It is unfair to have the same category twice. No category should be more then once. It was a mistake to have two classic and because of that we have to keep on paying for it? Besides, classic is not a proper category.

Can anyone define what classic is that fits in every single case? I don't think so because it's a subjective thing. We should have categories where you can go yes, that fits or no that doesn't fit. Classic isn't like that. There's no reason to have it twice when we have enough hassles with it even once. It is the least liked category after romance.

It is difficult to define what is meant in literature by the word "classic", but one good rule of thumb I've found is, "Was it written by Jim Butcher?" If the answer is "yes", it's not a classic.

At least, not yet.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I am in complete agreement with JS on it being ludicrous to have two categories the same. There’s really no reason to have that and we read, on the whole, fairly classic books within the book club in general.

I would like to throw in a couple of options:

1 – Award-Winner: must have won one of the following awards – open for other options: Pulitzer, Booker, Giller, and Hugo.

2 – Youth: something in the Youth fiction area. While many of us are older, not everyone is up to reading Literature every month and a nod to more youthful titles and youthful members would be nice. I’ve enjoyed many young fiction titles over the years even though I’m not in the target age group anymore.

This would be for the year 2013.

[WT Sharpe]

I'm open to that, and we have a whole year to discuss it.

So the posts that have appeared in the last day seem an echo of a more extensive discussion that occurred leading up the the poll https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...hlight=classic on the issue. I've no problem with spending all of 2012 (and for some getting a early start on it in 2011 ) debating the issue once more. That any anything else people would like to debate. Just a suggestion, but how about putting up a sticky thread for all of this so it will not clutter up the actual nomination and selection threads?

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

So the posts that have appeared in the last day seem an echo of a more extensive discussion that occurred leading up the the poll https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...hlight=classic on the issue. I've no problem with spending all of 2012 (and for some getting a early start on it in 2011 ) debating the issue once more. That any anything else people would like to debate. Just a suggestion, but how about putting up a sticky thread for all of this so it will not clutter up the actual nomination and selection threads?

I agree. We need a stickied Discussion/Suggestion thread as well as an Administration thread once decissions are made.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

It is difficult to define what is meant in literature by the word "classic", but one good rule of thumb I've found is, "Was it written by Jim Butcher?" If the answer is "yes", it's not a classic.

At least, not yet.

See, I told you you could not do it. There's no way to define classic that fits for every case. And yes, I do think Storm Front is a classic in it's genre. So while this sort of issue is going to exist, classic is worthless as a category.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I am in complete agreement with JS on it being ludicrous to have two categories the same. There’s really no reason to have that and we read, on the whole, fairly classic books within the book club in general.

I'd also like to see the 2nd classic option replaced with something else. Aside from the problem of defining "classic" (which is only a problem in the abstract... if someone wants to nominate the latest Stephen King novel in classics, and it gets two supporting nominations, and *then* wins the vote... fine, then MR readers can consider that novel a "classic"), there are plenty of other potential categories of books.

I would like to throw in a couple of options:

1 – Award-Winner: must have won one of the following awards – open for other options: Pulitzer, Booker, Giller, and Hugo.

I'd be happy with *any* award. If a book won the National Basketweaving Newsletter Award For Great Basketweaving Books? It's eligible. Because, again, the three-nominations-plus-vote process should keep the *winners* to books that have a certain level of community support. Allow books with any award would encourage people to nominate interesting books that the rest of us wouldn't normally hear about.

Fictionwise used to have an genre award winners category; it's now buried deep in the site and requires using the dropdown menu. (The link is "Hugo and Nebula winners." I can't find a link to the search/dropdown without picking a category.)

2 – Youth: something in the Youth fiction area. While many of us are older, not everyone is up to reading Literature every month and a nod to more youthful titles and youthful members would be nice. I’ve enjoyed many young fiction titles over the years even though I’m not in the target age group anymore.

The YA category has many *excellent* books, both current award winners (Doctorow's "Little Brother," Collins' "Hunger Games") and childhood favorites a lot of us never got around to reading. I'd be happy to see this category instead of the other classic.

I'm not sure which I would vote for if I had to choose, but I'd be very happy to read the discussions about it.

This would be for the year 2013.

Should open a thread for discussion. The last discussion/vote was centered around "should we/should we not change the 2nd classic category," and it was close, but the majority preferred no change. (No idea how much of that was because JSWolf goes out of his way to be obnoxious about it, and they were voting "whatever JSWolf doesn't want," on the theory that the book club is going to select an awesome book no matter what the category is.)

This could focus more on, "if the category's changed, what would we vote on instead?"

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The YA category has many *excellent* books, both current award winners (Doctorow's "Little Brother," Collins' "Hunger Games") and childhood favorites a lot of us never got around to reading. I'd be happy to see this category instead of the other classic.

I agree 100%. Let's do it. All we have to do is nominate YA for one of the classics. Classic as a category is so vague that anything nominated would fit.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I'd be happy with *any* award. If a book won the National Basketweaving Newsletter Award For Great Basketweaving Books? It's eligible. Because, again, the three-nominations-plus-vote process should keep the *winners* to books that have a certain level of community support. Allow books with any award would encourage people to nominate interesting books that the rest of us wouldn't normally hear about.

The second point is a very good one.

I would argue that the point that the three-noms and vote weeds out is suspect because one should never underestimate the stupidity of the mob.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I'm not sure which I would vote for if I had to choose, but I'd be very happy open a thread for discussion. The last discussion/vote was centered around "should we/should we not change the 2nd classic category," and it was close, but the majority preferred no change. (No idea how much of that was because JSWolf goes out of his way to be obnoxious about it, and they were voting "whatever JSWolf doesn't want," on the theory that the book club is going to select an awesome book no matter what the category is.)

This could focus more on, "if the category's changed, what would we vote on instead?"

It wasn't at all close. Twelve voted for change, twenty to keep two classics months. That's two-thirds more!

[ATDrake]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

So the posts that have appeared in the last day seem an echo of a more extensive discussion that occurred leading up the the poll https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...hlight=classic on the issue.

Clearly, the MobileRead Book Category Debate Club will attract much more spirited participation than the Book Club does, according to the numbers.

From a non-participant perspective, I'd suggest reallocating the two "Classics" months to the suggested "Award-Winner" and perhaps "Public Domain Literature/Foundational Texts*", the latter of which is what "Classics" seems to usually work out to most of the time.

The December month would probably be better PDL/FT, as I'd expect many MR-goers to have to spend money on Xmas shopping (or save it up for the Boxing Day sales) and having a guaranteed freebie to read would probably be more welcome than trying to find a decent-priced copy of a more modern book.

There also seems to be a significant enough overlap between Mystery/Crime and Suspense/Thriller that I think you could consolidate them and use the spare month for YA.

* Yes, I know this is a vague category, but I trust my fellow MR-goers not to troll-nominate, say, Contagious Abortion of Cows on the grounds that it's some sort of trailblazing monograph in its field.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

So the posts that have appeared in the last day seem an echo of a more extensive discussion that occurred leading up the the poll https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...hlight=classic on the issue. I've no problem with spending all of 2012 (and for some getting a early start on it in 2011 ) debating the issue once more. That any anything else people would like to debate. Just a suggestion, but how about putting up a sticky thread for all of this so it will not clutter up the actual nomination and selection threads?

Done.