Colleen McCulloughs famous Masters of Rome Series

[JSWolf]

This just goes to prove how clueless the publishers really are. They put out the last book or two of a series and thus you cannot get the entire series in electronic form. So that sends people to the darknet to go find the books that are not available legally. This I blame 100% on the publishers. Or even worse, you find say book 3 in in series in a format you can deal with and then book 2 in a format you cannot deal with and no book 1 in any format. So off to the darknet to solve the problem. And while there, why not have a look for book 3 as well... See, the publishers are sending people to the darknet for ebooks.

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This just goes to prove how clueless the publishers really are. They put out the last book or two of a series and thus you cannot get the entire series in electronic form. So that sends people to the darknet to go find the books that are not available legally. This I blame 100% on the publishers. Or even worse, you find say book 3 in in series in a format you can deal with and then book 2 in a format you cannot deal with and no book 1 in any format. So off to the darknet to solve the problem. And while there, why not have a look for book 3 as well... See, the publishers are sending people to the darknet for ebooks.

Here I think publishers have some excuses; this series started in 1990, and Caesar the last non (legal) e-book in the series has been published in 1997; I read the books pretty much on publication and I own the last 4 in hc and the first 3 in mmpb, and even though this last one was available as soon as published in e-form including lit (and Books on Board had an excellent sale on it for a while), I still got the hc since I really like how it looks in my library.

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Have you read Lindsey Davis's "Falco" series? Detective stories set during the rule of the emperor Vespasian (ie 70s AD). Absolutely excellent. If you like either Roman stories or detective stories I'd recommend them thoroughly.

Actually I've read the first 4-5 books and I really liked book 2, but after a while they started to seem the same and the anachronisms started to really annoy me so I stopped reading the series.

I love the Roma sub Rosa series by S. Saylor (9 novels and 2 collections of short stories, with novel 10, The Triumph of Caesar coming in 08) which ties each novel to a pivotal point in late republican history

Roman Blood - Sulla's dictatorship and proscriptions
Arms of Nemesis - Spartacus
Catilina's riddle - Catilina's pseudo-revolt
Venus Throw - The lost generation of Clodius, Caelius, Clodia, and the poet Catulus
A Murder on the Appian Way - death of Clodius, Milo's trial and the beginning of the end of the Republic
Rubicon - well the title says it all
Last Seen in Massilia - early stages of the civil war and Caesar's triumph in the West
A Mist of Prophecies - The revolt of Caelius and Milo in Caesar's absence and Pharsalus
The Judgement of Caesar - Caesar in Egypt and Cleopatra

All feature Gordianus the Finder, a sort of early private detective, employed by Cicero, Crassus, Pompeius, Caesar and various other luminaries to find the truth about this or that; Gordianus starts his career among the mighty by helping young Cicero take on Sulla's proscriptions in the case of Roscius which sort of started Cicero a Homo Novus on his illustrious career.

Alternating quarreling and grudging friendship with Cicero whom Gordianus a middle class roman does not forgive for allying himself with the corrupt ruling class to gain the Consulship, entering in ambiguous relationships with Crassus, Pompeius and Caesar, and with a slightly unbelievable but fascinating and unorthodox family, Gordianus is one of my most loved characters and while the mysteries themselves are by and large not very sophisticated, the books work extraordinary well as historical fiction and they form a very good complement to Ms. McCullough work from the point of view of an "average" citizen rather than the mighty of the Masters of Rome series.

[mlove]

When I started reading the McCullough series, I asked a couple of classicists at our university about the books and they were very enthusiastic. But I agree that the later books are not as good and in this one she doesn't bother with her historical notes on her research, just giving a glossary.

I like Steven Saylor's mysteries, but I found Roma unreadable.

But Dorothy Dunnett, especially the Niccolo series and King Hereafter are really great. In fact, I based a whole history course around the Niccolo series and it worked out really well. Her Johnson Johnson thrillers are fun too.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mlove

I like Steven Saylor's mysteries, but I found Roma unreadable.

Each to their own; I enjoyed "Roma" very much indeed!

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Each to their own; I enjoyed "Roma" very much indeed!

Me too;

I rarely like multi generational sagas, especially spanning 1000 years or so, but this book hooked me at about the third story or so and was excellent from then on. It starts slow but true, but if you persevere to Romulus, Coriolanus, the Gallic invasion and so on it's really rewarding.

There is another mystery series set in late Republican Rome, SPQR #n (got to 11 or 12), by J. Maddox Roberts, but for some reason I never liked it. I liked more his alternate history where Hannibal defeats Rome and exiles the romans to Germany (there are 2 volumes as of now) but I am not sure if it will brought to some conclusion since the second book tanked in the market as far as I know, though I hope I am wrong.

Regarding other famous historical novels:

- I liked some though not all of M. Renault novels - The Last of the Wine is however one of my all time favorites, I reread 10 times easily

- Mika Waltari (Roman, Etruscan, Egyptian, Adventurer, Wanderer, Dark Angel, Secret of the Kingdom, Jean Le Peregrin - this one available only in French) is probably my favorite 20th century historical novelist (with Dumas of course my favorite of all time)

- The Accursed Kings series by M. Druon is excellent too though unfortunately all English translations I saw were mediocre at best

- I read all 7 volumes in D. Dunnett Nicolo series (though not the other series) and I liked them but they are not in my top historical novels; too many things happening in too short a time to few characters that I never fully warmed up to.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Each to their own; I enjoyed "Roma" very much indeed!

Of books set in that period, I've only ever read 'I, Claudius' and 'Claudius, the God'. I'm not normally a history-loving person, and rarely read any historical fiction, but these were quite magnificent. I tried to read the Colleen McCullough books, but I found it like trying to suck a bar of soap through a dirty footy sock, and so I've not followed up on any more, fearing disappointment (and, of course, "So many books, so little time".

...and so, it's been interesting watching this thread. I have bookmarked it for future reference. (By the by, along with my large TBR pile to go, I am currently reading, and most of the way through, Iris Murdoch's 'The Sea, The Sea' and trying not to hate it. She writes technically very well, but by the gods it's hard with this book to care about any of her characters, particularly the main. Considering her reputation, I'm inclined to think the problem is a flaw in me rather than the book ).

Cheers,
Marc

[adelheid]

As far as historical novels go, I would recommend Flaubert's Salammbo. Situated in Carthage, not the easiest read but a very intense story.

I noticed the book is available as a download from this forum.

I also like Saylor's books. Roma was actually the first book I read on the Cybook.


Groet,
Adelheid

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by adelheid

As far as historical novels go, I would recommend Flaubert's Salammbo.


Groet,
Adelheid

Great classic, no question about it. I've read a long time ago (easily 20 yrs+), and reread it once several years later but the imagery still remains vivid to me. It really opened a big epoch of exploration in French Africa in the 19th century, so influential it was at the time.

More classics: Pharaoh by Boleslaw Prus (appeared on Gutenberg just recently, though under a slightly different name - and I really did not have the time to check how good is the translation) and of course Quo Vadis by H. Sienkiwickz which is still unsurpassed as a masterpiece of Christian historical fiction

Other classics though from the first part of the 20th century are I Claudius by R. Graves and The Corn King and Spring Queen by N. Mitchison.

[HarryT]

Note that you can download Quo Vadis from MR.

[Sparrow]

As a child, I remember enjoying the 'Judge Dee' detective stories of Robert van Gulik, which were set in Ancient China.

[Oh, Why Not?]

The "Judge Dee" books are in my permanant paper book collection. Jut damn good!

[owl123]

I'm a fan of Ms. McCullough's books and an avid reader of historical fiction set in ancient Rome (or in the times of Republic to be more precise).

Apart from the books mentioned before here are some others I feel you might like:

1. Benita Kane Jaro's trilogy: The Key, The Lock and The Door in the Wall.

I didn't like the first one which was about Catullus the poet but the other two are great reads. They all take place in 50-40s BC. There's Cicero, Caesar, Pompey, Crassus and others. The protagonist is Marcus Caelius Rufus, also a historical figure.

There's a new book by Jaro in the times of Augustus. Not sure if it's been published yet.

All three books are available at Netlibrary as ebooks.

2. Catiline by Brandon Winnigham which you can get in eBook format for 6 bucks from iUniverse. A nice read about Catiline's revolt. Too bad it's just 180 pages.

3. John Maddox Roberts' SPQR series which is similar to Saylor's Roma sub rosa series. A few books from this series are available as eBooks.

[nohmi2]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

Actually I've read the first 4-5 books and I really liked book 2, but after a while they started to seem the same and the anachronisms started to really annoy me so I stopped reading the series.

I love the Roma sub Rosa series by S. Saylor (9 novels and 2 collections of short stories, with novel 10, The Triumph of Caesar coming in 08) which ties each novel to a pivotal point in late republican history

Roman Blood - Sulla's dictatorship and proscriptions
Arms of Nemesis - Spartacus
Catilina's riddle - Catilina's pseudo-revolt
Venus Throw - The lost generation of Clodius, Caelius, Clodia, and the poet Catulus
A Murder on the Appian Way - death of Clodius, Milo's trial and the beginning of the end of the Republic
Rubicon - well the title says it all
Last Seen in Massilia - early stages of the civil war and Caesar's triumph in the West
A Mist of Prophecies - The revolt of Caelius and Milo in Caesar's absence and Pharsalus
The Judgement of Caesar - Caesar in Egypt and Cleopatra

All feature Gordianus the Finder, a sort of early private detective, employed by Cicero, Crassus, Pompeius, Caesar and various other luminaries to find the truth about this or that; Gordianus starts his career among the mighty by helping young Cicero take on Sulla's proscriptions in the case of Roscius which sort of started Cicero a Homo Novus on his illustrious career.

Alternating quarreling and grudging friendship with Cicero whom Gordianus a middle class roman does not forgive for allying himself with the corrupt ruling class to gain the Consulship, entering in ambiguous relationships with Crassus, Pompeius and Caesar, and with a slightly unbelievable but fascinating and unorthodox family, Gordianus is one of my most loved characters and while the mysteries themselves are by and large not very sophisticated, the books work extraordinary well as historical fiction and they form a very good complement to Ms. McCullough work from the point of view of an "average" citizen rather than the mighty of the Masters of Rome series.

I have in pbooks all of the above, and have thoroughly enjoyed them.

Have you tried the "Falco" series by Lindsey Davies? It's also about a 'Finder".
They are much lighter reading than the books by S. Saylor, but still good reading and a lot of fun.

[SHOECHICK]

Quick question on this series....for anyone that has read Antony and Cleopatra, would this be a good stand alone read or do you really need to have read the rest of the series first?

Tx