Why I'll never give another penny to Waterstones - Page 2

Ben Thornton · 02-22-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

They are the best bookshop chain in the UK by a massive margin.

For physical books, I think that Amazon.co.uk is better, and for e-books, Amazon.com is better. OK, these aren't "chains", but it needn't be "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" to avoid Waterstones - I check then when I'm looking for content and have found precious little that I wanted there TBH.

badbob001 · 02-22-2010, 01:32 PM

Perhaps you're giving them too much leeway, especially if you're asking them to fix something they have no power to fix. Did you try dropping the bit about 'getting a good copy of the book' and firmly ask for a refund? Maybe that would be the customer service or account department? Do they have a formal e-book return policy?

Beanski · 02-22-2010, 01:35 PM

+1 for WHSmith (for ebooks anyway)

I bought a bundled ebook from them, which should've contained the first 2 parts of a series. I got to the end of the first book ... and of the ebook - no second part. A quick email to WHSmith's got my money refunded immediately. I was then able to buy the second part with change left over

K8Ereader · 02-22-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanski

+1 for WHSmith (for ebooks anyway)

I bought a bundled ebook from them, which should've contained the first 2 parts of a series. I got to the end of the first book ... and of the ebook - no second part. A quick email to WHSmith's got my money refunded immediately. I was then able to buy the second part with change left over

I had exactly the same experience with the 'first 2 parts of a trilogy' which turned out to be part 1 plus a single chapter of the second! They refunded straight away.

If the e-book version is so rubbish, is it worth e-mailing the publisher too?

omk3 · 02-22-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbob001

Perhaps you're giving them too much leeway, especially if you're asking them to fix something they have no power to fix. Did you try dropping the bit about 'getting a good copy of the book' and firmly ask for a refund? Maybe that would be the customer service or account department? Do they have a formal e-book return policy?

Theoretically they could contact the publisher and demand a good version of the ebook. That's actually what they should do, because presumably more people will buy the book and will obviously have the same complaint.
I don't think the problem was that they couldn't decide which of the options to choose. I mean, in a brick and mortar shop it would be the same: "This book is damaged. Do you have a good copy? If yes, I'll take it. If not, I need a refund". Isn't that how it works?

I can't find anything on their website about specifically returning ebooks. I asked them on my first email how returning an ebook works, but as you can imagine there was no useful (or even useless) answer.

charleski · 02-23-2010, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

Theoretically they could contact the publisher and demand a good version of the ebook. That's actually what they should do, because presumably more people will buy the book and will obviously have the same complaint.

The error you describe is very elementary and a result of sloppy practice on the part of the technicians who converted the book. Unfortunately most publishers outsource their ebooks to 'conversion houses', some of which are of very dubious quality. As is usual in such cases, people will just keep passing the buck until someone is forced to pay for the mistakes.

My advice would be to write to Watchdog, Which, and any other consumer association you can think of. eBooks made the news over Christmas, so one of them might pick up the story and put some pressure on Waterstones, which is the only way to get a real result.

roger the rabbit · 02-23-2010, 04:35 AM

I would agree with other posters - complain to your Credit card company asking for a refund - that is one of the things you pay them for! They are jointly responsible with Waterstones. You have enough evidence.

Maybe that will be yet another reason they should re train their useless customer service dept.

ChristopherTD · 02-23-2010, 05:19 AM

Why not take the Reader in to a Waterstones store and show them the book in all its deficient glory and ask for help?

I bought half a dozen Ian Rankin books from Fictionwise about 4 years ago and they were full of the most atrocious OCR errors. The result of me reporting this was that the titles simply vanished from the store. They have never re-appeared. Basic formatting and OCR errors are the plague of ebooks, and corrections rarely appear (though the Hobbit was updated after being released last year with a slew of errors)

omk3 · 02-23-2010, 06:56 AM

I don't care so much about the refund, as about the quality of service in general, so I really wouldn't want to go through the trouble of getting the credit card company into this.

Anyway, something weird happened today! Yesterday I followed your advice and wrote a review on the waterstones site about the ebook. It clearly stated that the book had errors in encoding that made it unreadable and that waterstones did nothing about it after I complained. I got a message that my review would appear within 72 hours, so I checked back today. The review hasn't appeared, but the book has disappeared completely, exactly as in ChristopherTD's case! So two months of emails could not make anyone react, but one bad review could - in one day. I can only hope that the book will reappear in better condition instead of vanish forever.

yagiz · 02-23-2010, 08:27 AM

There's something that I don't understand... When we complain about high e-book prices, publishers respond by saying that producing an e-book costs as much as a dead-tree book, because it's going through the same processes etc. etc. But do they think that it's OK to provide the market with low-quality e-books? Do they really think that it's OK to do a worse job than a book-pirate in scanning a book and selling it the same price as a dead-tree book? Is that why e-books are so expensive... to pay for the not-so-state-of-the-art scanner?

cmdahler · 02-23-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

I don't care so much about the refund, as about the quality of service in general, so I really wouldn't want to go through the trouble of getting the credit card company into this.

The cost of the book aside, the point to demanding a refund and disputing a charge with the credit card company is to accomplish the same kind of thing as your bad review did: force the seller and the publisher to do something to fix the book. The volume of sales at a seller like Waterstones is such that if you just say, "Well, I'm taking my business elsewhere," they're not going to notice your departure nor particularly care. If you want the formatting of these ebooks to get better, then bad reviews and forced refunds through the credit card company for a shoddy product will certainly get their attention.

jbjb · 02-23-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K8Ereader

I had exactly the same experience with the 'first 2 parts of a trilogy' which turned out to be part 1 plus a single chapter of the second! They refunded straight away.

If the e-book version is so rubbish, is it worth e-mailing the publisher too?

Was it Robin Hobbs' Assassin's Apprenntice & Royal Assassin by any chance? I've had the same issue with that from the Hertfordshire elibrary.

/JB

Panda Rose · 02-23-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Just to clarify, I was referring to "physical" shops. Waterstones have a superb branch in Manchester, where I work; Smiths these days is awful for books (at least my local branches are).

I can't compare their eBook stores, since I've never used either (other than to get my free copy of "The Lost Symbol" which was given away with my Sony PRS-600, bought at Waterstones).

That my local Waterstones!
I had to complain WHSmiths about their customer services. Funny, but I got nowhere until I passed the phone to my DH. That really annoyed me.

sony_fox · 02-23-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

That my local Waterstones!

It's not quite my local waterstones. But it is the one I'm mostly to shop in. A very big branch with a wide range of stock - rather than endless copies of the same book which can make some big stores actually dull.

I had a different problem with Waterstones - only resolved by contacting the author and the publisher. It still took over 3 months, but was resolved to my satisfaction. The author was particularly annoyed, and I'd recommend contacting them if you can whenever you have a problem with their books.

Waterstones email customer service does seem to have a poor reputation.

columbus · 02-23-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sony_fox

Waterstones email customer service does seem to have a poor reputation.

Not just the email! which they never answer in under 5 days, the telephone service is just as bad/worse.

Come on Waterstones wake up! we know you read this forum!

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02-22-2010, 01:32 PM	#17
badbob001 Fanatic Posts: 556 Karma: 1102020 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Kindle Keyboard (rip), Kindle Voyage, Fire Tablet 10 '17, iPad '19	Perhaps you're giving them too much leeway, especially if you're asking them to fix something they have no power to fix. Did you try dropping the bit about 'getting a good copy of the book' and firmly ask for a refund? Maybe that would be the customer service or account department? Do they have a formal e-book return policy?

02-22-2010, 01:35 PM	#18
Beanski Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 114 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: K3, K4, iPad	+1 for WHSmith (for ebooks anyway) I bought a bundled ebook from them, which should've contained the first 2 parts of a series. I got to the end of the first book ... and of the ebook - no second part. A quick email to WHSmith's got my money refunded immediately. I was then able to buy the second part with change left over

02-23-2010, 04:35 AM	#22
roger the rabbit Addict Posts: 316 Karma: 10215 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wherever I lay my hat! Device: Sony PRS-T3, 650 Black, 505, Kobo Glo HD Aura ONE	I would agree with other posters - complain to your Credit card company asking for a refund - that is one of the things you pay them for! They are jointly responsible with Waterstones. You have enough evidence. Maybe that will be yet another reason they should re train their useless customer service dept.

02-23-2010, 05:19 AM	#23
ChristopherTD Addict Posts: 343 Karma: 1010002 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London. UK Device: Marvin Reader on iPad Air (via Calibre)	Why not take the Reader in to a Waterstones store and show them the book in all its deficient glory and ask for help? I bought half a dozen Ian Rankin books from Fictionwise about 4 years ago and they were full of the most atrocious OCR errors. The result of me reporting this was that the titles simply vanished from the store. They have never re-appeared. Basic formatting and OCR errors are the plague of ebooks, and corrections rarely appear (though the Hobbit was updated after being released last year with a slew of errors)

02-23-2010, 06:56 AM	#24
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	I don't care so much about the refund, as about the quality of service in general, so I really wouldn't want to go through the trouble of getting the credit card company into this. Anyway, something weird happened today! Yesterday I followed your advice and wrote a review on the waterstones site about the ebook. It clearly stated that the book had errors in encoding that made it unreadable and that waterstones did nothing about it after I complained. I got a message that my review would appear within 72 hours, so I checked back today. The review hasn't appeared, but the book has disappeared completely, exactly as in ChristopherTD's case! So two months of emails could not make anyone react, but one bad review could - in one day. I can only hope that the book will reappear in better condition instead of vanish forever.

02-23-2010, 08:27 AM	#25
yagiz http://is.gd/4flJX Posts: 134 Karma: 422 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Sony PRS-505, iPhone 3G	There's something that I don't understand... When we complain about high e-book prices, publishers respond by saying that producing an e-book costs as much as a dead-tree book, because it's going through the same processes etc. etc. But do they think that it's OK to provide the market with low-quality e-books? Do they really think that it's OK to do a worse job than a book-pirate in scanning a book and selling it the same price as a dead-tree book? Is that why e-books are so expensive... to pay for the not-so-state-of-the-art scanner?

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