BeBook Review - really a great device...

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Essentially it has to do with rights issues.

The gist of the matter is that for most English language books the North American and European rights are sold separately. Any e-bookstore naturally gets the books from the rightsholder in the country where that bookstore is located.

In other words you can't necessarily get the same book in the US and Timbuktu - The US publisher probably doesn't have the rights to distribute that book in Timbuktu.

Many of them sell worldwide based (as far as I know) on the principle that the transaction takes place in the country where the store is located; much like a European visitor in the US buying a book in Borders. They can still take it home even if the US publisher doesn't have European rights to the book.

This is fine for pure e-book stores, but not for someone like Sony.

If they sell hardware in Germany, they need to make sure they have the rights for that territory for any book (or any book bought with a credit or coupon) bundled with the reader. That means they either set up a store for each country or partner with a local store to make sure they have the right editions. Essentially the reader being a physical object puts them into that country as far as rights are concerned.

It doesn't matter for books bought from stores like Fictionwise, but with Sony's own DRM being tied to the device it certainly does matter for Connect.

That's why Sony Canada allows access to the Connect store and Sony UK uses Waterstones: different rights. (Though it gets messy with Canada because some books have North American rights and others have Commonwealth rights- so sometimes Canadians get the US editions and other times they get the UK editions.)

Making deals in all those countries takes time.

Thanks for your analysis. Whilst no doubt accurate, Sony has had literally years to negotiate the "rights" in other regions, and doesn't seem to have made attempts or progress. But that doesn't really answer the limitation on buying the device (from Sony) from anywhere in the world. The device can't be the problem as just about any gadget is available worldwide (e.g. iPods, X-Boxes, etc.).

No doubt as long as there is some local distributor, publisher or reseller earning local profit, and the governement gets a share of some kind of tax, then all will be happy. These things do take time, but I don't believe they would take this long in most "western" countries if the companies were serious. The limited markets they have are obviously enough at this time.

In the end the whole situation is ultimately farcical, as I can just go and start an account at www.myus.com (not that I've done this) and for a (very) small fee they will forward mail (sans dangerous goods, porn, etc.) to just about anywhere in the world. In addition, if you need a US credit card to purchase you can simply pay them and they use one of their cards to make your purchase.

Where there's a will there's a way...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

No doubt as long as there is some local distributor, publisher or reseller earning local profit, and the governement gets a share of some kind of tax, then all will be happy. These things do take time, but I don't believe they would take this long in most "western" countries if the companies were serious. The limited markets they have are obviously enough at this time.

It took several years between the US iTunes Store appearing, and being able to use iTunes in other countries, for exactly the reasons described. Looking back on it, perhaps people forget that.

In the mean time, there's nothing to stop you from buying a Sony Reader. Many people buy from http://www.bhphotovideo.com who ship internationally.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It took several years between the US iTunes Store appearing, and being able to use iTunes in other countries, for exactly the reasons described. Looking back on it, perhaps people forget that.

In the mean time, there's nothing to stop you from buying a Sony Reader. Many people buy from http://www.bhphotovideo.com who ship internationally.

I'm not a fan of proprietary stores anyway (I use my own mp3 conversions on iPod), and the Sony Reader has very limited formats.

I considered using B&H before buying the BeBook (I found them accidentally when googling for Sony PRS-505 and then checking the shipping options), and even if any customs was applied (sometimes it slips through unnoticed!) I'd probably still be paying a little less, or not much more, than a BeBook. But I figured why support them (Sony), and why not go for a device that at least is trying to support multiple formats?

Anyway, we'll see - I like the Sony design, and the 8 grey scales would be nicer than 4 I'm sure. I'm not interested (yet) in the PRS-700 because I don't care about WiFi (again, since I'm not in the US). I'm also still unconvinced about the limited formats (i.e. I would have to convert to LRF, and does the 505/700 support MOBI and MOBI-DRM? - I think only LRF, PDF, EPUB, TXT, RTF for reading). Because of the format concerns, I'd probably grab one super cheap (maybe eBay) but not full price - even the great B&H price (with shipping to NL it's $315).

Cheers!

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

I'm not interested (yet) in the PRS-700 because I don't care about WiFi

That's good, because the 700 doesn't have WiFi.

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

The catch is that if the rights have been sold to different publishers in the UK and US you cannot buy the UK edition from Amazon US and you cannot buy the US edition from Amazon UK.

When Sony starts selling readers in any given country they are now on the "from" not the "to" side of the equation in that country, so the store (whether their own or their partners') can only sell books they have the rights to in that territory.

But that only matters for UK. Why is this a problem for Sony in countries were English is not the main language? What is the problem for Sony to sell English language books to Sweden or Italy and so on?

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

That's good, because the 700 doesn't have WiFi.

BOb

My mistake! I thought the 700 was going to have WiFi? So the main improvements over the 505 are touch screen and built-in light? Seems a bit ho-hum...

Oh well...

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

My mistake! I thought the 700 was going to have WiFi? So the main improvements over the 505 are touch screen and built-in light? Seems a bit ho-hum...

Oh well...

And twice as much main memory. The touch screen means, search, annotation, highlighting, and we hope dictionary support once they release a dictionary. The front light, by the way is the first in the industry to have one. It is a pretty big deal all by itself.

Dale

[JeffElkins]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

it amounts to is a big f**k you to anyone outside Yankee-land.

As native child of Dixie, I've never felt slighted by Amazon or Sony.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by tompe

But that only matters for UK. Why is this a problem for Sony in countries were English is not the main language? What is the problem for Sony to sell English language books to Sweden or Italy and so on?

It doesn't only matter in the UK. Most US publishers buy first North American rights only. That means that Sony cannot set up a "storefront" in either Sweden or Italy and sell those books. They do not have the rights to do so. Individual bookstores in those countries may buy books from the US for resale, but the publishers of those books do not sell to distributors that cover those territories.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

It doesn't only matter in the UK. Most US publishers buy first North American rights only. That means that Sony cannot set up a "storefront" in either Sweden or Italy and sell those books. They do not have the rights to do so. Individual bookstores in those countries may buy books from the US for resale, but the publishers of those books do not sell to distributors that cover those territories.

Thanks for your detailed analyses of the whole rights issue - do you work for the Sony (or Amazon) legal department?... just kidding!

This is not a criticism of you, but rather the whole "rights" explanation - it seems like so much sophistry to provide an ex post facto justification of a somewhat bizarre decision. The logic seems to break down for me - by the "rights" logic you explained:

Amazon, Sony (or whichever US corporate behemouth you wish to insert here) do not have the right to set up a store-front in UK, Sweden, Australia, Timbuktu, etc. So why distinguish between paper books and eBooks in this case?

Since 1998 I have ordered books from Amazon US, but have never lived in the US. They have never refused a sale, claiming they have no "rights" to sell to me in my place of residence. This is in accordance with your from side of the equation, as I understand it - they are selling from the US a product they have the right to sell there.

So why differentiate when it comes to eBooks? Why can't I buy the "US edition" of an Amazon or Sony eBook and have it shipped to me (i.e. download it) somewhere else, just like a paper book? After all, Fictionwise or whoever, sell PDF, MOBI and LIT eBooks which are "tied" to specific readers (in principle). The argument of "bundling" books with a reader (e.g. Sony or Kindle) doesn't really make sense either.

And why, oh why, if I live in Europe can I order the 505 and Sony eBooks from Waterstones online? What happened to the whole UK rights issue there? You could argue EU rights, but last I checked Saudi Arabia and Madagascar are not part of the EU, yet they're on the list of possible address locations I can select, amongst others.

But we can go round and round dissecting the various issues - suffice to say that decisions have been made which happen to disadvantage me (and others) outside the US market. Then again, this is not an isolated incident (I can't buy an Apple dual English/Russian keyboard because I live in Western Europe, and they are only sold in Eastern Europe - go figure!).

To quote your signature: "DRM is like saying if you want to read our book, you have to wear our glasses. If you want non-DRM content vote with your dollars and buy it. No one will offer it if there's no market."

I agree regarding DRM. I think DVD regions are similarly wrong. And I feel the same way about the Sony and Amazon artificial restrictions against all those avid readers outside the US. Hence, I choose to send my hard-earned Euros elsewhere... BeBook and iRex are some choices for now...

[/rant]

[tcv]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

Amazon, Sony (or whichever US corporate behemouth you wish to insert here) do not have the right to set up a store-front in UK, Sweden, Australia, Timbuktu, etc. So why distinguish between paper books and eBooks in this case?

This is about distribution, the ability to control what is available, in what markets, in controlled quantities, for relatively controlled prices. Just like you, I see this as very similar to DVD regions. Why should I need to buy a different player or a multiplayer if I want to, for example, view the Japanese-language version of a particular movie?

...snippers...

Originally Posted by orwell2k

But we can go round and round dissecting the various issues - suffice to say that decisions have been made which happen to disadvantage me (and others) outside the US market.

And inside, too. Perhaps I want to buy a UK version of the one of the Harry Potter novels which is only available via the UK Amazon. I was able to do it with the paper version. I suppose the 'e' version is not available to me.

m

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tcv

And inside, too. Perhaps I want to buy a UK version of the one of the Harry Potter novels which is only available via the UK Amazon. I was able to do it with the paper version. I suppose the 'e' version is not available to me.

m

"e" versions of Harry Potter books are not legally available to anybody .

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"e" versions of Harry Potter books are not legally available to anybody .

Yea, I think he was just making a hypothetical example.

BOb

[tcv]

Well, to be honest, I didn't really know that, but I still like the point: If I want to buy the original English e-version of something, I am sorta out of luck eh?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

It doesn't only matter in the UK. Most US publishers buy first North American rights only. That means that Sony cannot set up a "storefront" in either Sweden or Italy and sell those books. They do not have the rights to do so. Individual bookstores in those countries may buy books from the US for resale, but the publishers of those books do not sell to distributors that cover those territories.

Why should they set up a storefront in Sweden to sell English language books when you can just buy them from UK or US like you do with Amazon?