MobileRead For the 2016 categories, as a 1st step, can we....

[WT Sharpe]

For the 2016 categories, as a 1st step, can we agree to leave January intact and go from there? I'm kind of itchin' to see some changes from the past few years, but January's "runner-up/no nominations" category has always been one that's served us well.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

For the 2016 categories, as a 1st step, can we agree to leave January intact and go from there? I'm kind of itchin' to see some changes from the past few years, but January's "runner-up/no nominations" category has always been one that's served us well.

It means that people don't have to nominate during a very busy time of year for many.

[Dazrin]

I am all for that.

I think the voting for January could also start at the same time as a normal vote would - January 1st (+/- to account for that being a holiday) rather than Dec 20th. That way the vote is closer to when a normal vote would be.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I think the voting for January could also start at the same time as a normal vote would - January 1st (+/- to account for that being a holiday) rather than Dec 20th. That way the vote is closer to when a normal vote would be.

I think that's an excellent suggestion.

[sun surfer]

I like the suggestion, Tom. Besides the obvious reason of it being a busy time of year, I like the variety it always brings for a month and I like that we have at least one category that has remained unchanged in the same month since I started here so many years ago; in a small way it gives a feeling of tradition that I like while still allowing for big changes in other months should we want them.

Originally Posted by issybird

It means that people don't have to nominate during a very busy time of year for many.

It's interesting that you are so for this yearly category and yet so against a similar idea in the other club for only once every few years. If I remember correctly, didn't you just recently call the idea "retread" and give a lengthy argument on why you don't like idea of a second-chance category? What makes your opinion change so must be because of the particular timing of the category for this club or something similarly explanatory, but if I didn't know better it would feel a lot like you just want to give me a hard time.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Agreed on Second Chance. I'm not fussy about when the vote should be. More consistent with other months makes sense, but whatever works for the manager is better in my opinion.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I am all for that.

I think the voting for January could also start at the same time as a normal vote would - January 1st (+/- to account for that being a holiday) rather than Dec 20th. That way the vote is closer to when a normal vote would be.

That could work. Since people are normally expecting a nomination thread on the 20th, I could substitute a thread that explains what the choices will be when the poll does post and then go ahead on the 1st and post the actual poll.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

That could work. Since people are normally expecting a nomination thread on the 20th, I could substitute a thread that explains what the choices will be when the poll does post and then go ahead on the 1st and post the actual poll.

Another option would be to have the voting period extended rather than delayed; that way people who are busy at the holidays have more chance to vote and you wouldn't need to do two separate posts. A 2 week voting period starting around the 20th would overlap both the normal nomination period and voting period.

I certainly didn't want to add to your work with that suggestion, just trying to add some accessibility during a very busy time of year. Really whatever you prefer will work.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

It means that people don't have to nominate during a very busy time of year for many.

That would be December, not January. I do think that second chance/runner up would be best in December because of how busy the month can be. January is not nearly as busy a minth as December.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That would be December, not January. I do think that second chance/runner up would be best in December because of how busy the month can be. January is not nearly as busy a minth as December.

The nominations are what take the majority of screen time and effort. Having a regular month of January would mean WT Sharpe would need to be very active from Dec 20 until the nominations are complete, in order to keep the nominations up to date, and then setup the poll whenever the nominations are full or the time runs out. Keeping January as the second chance month means he can setup a single vote around the holidays (whenever/however he decides to do that) and forget about it till things are done. Plus, he will know what the poll will be almost a month ahead of time so can get it all drafted and ready to go anytime in December.

Right now December is also the "short story" month because we recognized that it is hard to find time in December and wanted some easier (or at least shorter) books to read during the busy month.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

Another option would be to have the voting period extended rather than delayed; that way people who are busy at the holidays have more chance to vote and you wouldn't need to do two separate posts. A 2 week voting period starting around the 20th would overlap both the normal nomination period and voting period.



I certainly didn't want to add to your work with that suggestion, just trying to add some accessibility during a very busy time of year. Really whatever you prefer will work.

That might be even better. Many people take vacations around that time of year, so having, say, a ten-day or two week window for voting might work out well.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I'm moving this discussion from the nominations area. I am totally off topic for there now.

Originally Posted by Dazrin

WT Sharpe has started a thread about changing categories for 2016 which I really hope goes forward. As you noted, the year over year number of votes has been dropping and not just for Romance, which I know is popular overall but not necessarily at MR judging by the "What are you reading" thread. I know I don't care for Romance and haven't voted although I do follow the threads. Hopefully a new set of categories will help bring in a few more people.

I do wonder how many people are lurking and not participating vocally. I know I don't vote if I don't think I will read a selection and don't always comment even if I do depending on how it goes.

I think it's a bit early for the category discussion. I hope we can figure out a way to get more people involved in the clubs. They've opened up so much for me as to what is out there to read, by members we grow to understand and trust their opinions. As much as JSWolf can be a thorn to some, I know the kinds of books he likes and can use that when I'm looking for a certain kind of book. That's what I want out of the club. Trusted opinions on all topics.

It's okay to me to not vote when you won't read. In fact I think that is more fair to those that are voting that month. I nominate, second and vote for things I really want to read in categories I am interested in. I will read the occasional other selection I didn't vote for. My participation has been spotty at best the last couple of years. I had buried myself a little too far in personal reading challenges to participate much. I've toned that down and am participating more this year. I might read the Wharton selection if it wins, but I didn't vote for it. There is so much to read out there that I am a little disappointed when the club revisits the same authors and subjects too frequently.

I don't gauge participation much on the discussion, but on the voting. The drop in voting disturbs me as it means that books people want to read aren't getting nominated for some reason. We seem to be getting a good number of nominations still so I don't see anything worrisome yet on that front, although December with only 4 options and this month with only 9 options might be a trend. We'll see how Classics goes in April as it usually fares well despite my personal vendetta against it.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Here's a six-month running average for voters in the bookclub.

51 second month, first month was a non-voting month
49.5 January 2009
45.25 March
42.2 May
48.8 July
65.6 Sep
80 Nov
82.2 January 2010
88.6 Mar
93 May
85.8 Jul
90.4 Sep
95.6 November 2010
92.4 January 2011
87.6 Mar
80 May
71.4 Jul
73.6 Sep
67.8 Nov
72.4 January 2012
63.6 Mar
53.6 May
48.6 Jul
51.0 Sep
46.4 Nov
48.0 January 2013
49.6 Mar
45.0 May
41.4 Jul
45.4 Sep
43.0 Nov
36.8 January 2014
30.6 Mar
27.8 May
31.8 Jul
34 Sep
27.8 Nov
27.6 January 2015

I was thinking originally that the drop had something to do with changes to categories, but looking more closely, the drop was across all categories and from February 2011 on. Categories weren't changed in 2011, they were in 2010, but voting was still high.

The graph follows what I would expect to a point. A brief increase in participation and then a dip to a leveling off point. Except the leveling off is just continuing as a downward trend. So where are all the participants going?

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

We'll see how Classics goes in April as it usually fares well despite my personal vendetta against it.

Classics is weird to me because I don't particularly care for the category but I normally do vote since some interesting books get nominated. So I am not sure that voting participation is a great method for judging popularity in this case.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I'll throw out this theory.

Have we annoyed people with the nomination process where early books get in and we cap the poll at ten and since the main participants tend to nominate early, later nominations are left by the wayside and voting interest drops as a result? What if we went down the path of one nomination, but more seconds and thirds for everyone to give later books a better chance and a better voice for nominations from more people?