Piracy is necessary and doesn't hurt revenues

[fjtorres]

One thing to remember: not all out of region DVDs are georestricted in the ebook sense.

Some are only distributed within a specific market because out of limited interest outside that market. For example, a live action Japanese movie isn't a product you typically find at a local Walmart. Similarly, alternate-region DVDs often carry different subtitles, audio tracks, and extras so they are effectively different products.

One example: I legally own on DVD both HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCEROR'S STONE and HARRY POTTER AND THE PHILOSOPHER'S STONE. The differences are slight but real. For that matter, if you're a fantasy fan and want to buy a copy of THE TENTH KINGDOM, the only version available is the dutch version. Readily available from american retailers through Amazon.

So, again, buying out-of-region DVDs is in no way equivalent to faking an IP address to stream an out of market video, much less downloading a pirate video or ebook.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

How do I buy DVD from game of throne season 4?
Oh, wait, I can't, they're not out yet.

Probably in about one year.... That's too long! That's not reasonable.

You said at the start of this thread that you didn't believe that you had a "right" to be able to see a TV show, but now you seem to be saying that you think you do indeed have such a right. Doesn't the owner of the material have the right to decide when to release it to you? It's their property.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

How do I buy DVD from game of throne season 4?
Oh, wait, I can't, they're not out yet.

Probably in about one year.... That's too long! That's not reasonable.

So?
I'm really stoked for this show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk8kznlrv7A

I won't be able to watch until october even though it's already filmed and ready to go. That's too long! That's not reasonable.

Worse, Netflix has five new Marvel TV series in production but I won't be able to watch any of them until next April. Totally not reasonable.

Life is tough.
And then you die.

Nobody is entitled to anything.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

...

So, again, buying out-of-region DVDs is in no way equivalent to faking an IP address to stream an out of market video, much less downloading a pirate video or ebook.

I have to disagree, buying out of region DVD's is exactly the same as faking an IP address to stream an out of market video, especially if I add the cavet "that I paid for". In both cases, you are proactively avoiding the Geo-restrictions that were contractually put on that particular content, be it DVD or online video.

Downloading a pirate video or ebook (i.e. a downloading a video or ebook for free that is available on the free market to avoid having to pay for it) is a very different thing. Of course, the real issue is that people use the word "pirate" to mean lots of different things.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I have to disagree, buying out of region DVD's is exactly the same as faking an IP address to stream an out of market video, especially if I add the cavet "that I paid for". In both cases, you are proactively avoiding the Geo-restrictions that were contractually put on that particular content, be it DVD or online video.

Downloading a pirate video or ebook (i.e. a downloading a video or ebook for free that is available on the free market to avoid having to pay for it) is a very different thing. Of course, the real issue is that people use the word "pirate" to mean lots of different things.

Out of region is *not* the same thing as geo-restricted.
Geo-restricted means "not authorized for sale".
Out of region simply means "not intended for", or "not marketted to", or even simpler "import".

Try buying some original japanese anime DVDs: no hoops needed. There are plenty of authorized vendors.

That is why region-free DVD players are legal.
Importing is not illegal.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Try buying some original japanese anime DVDs: no hoops needed. There are plenty of authorized vendors.

That is why region-free DVD players are legal.
Importing is not illegal.

Exactly. I can freely buy any Region 1 DVD that I want from amazon.com. Neither Amazon nor I are breaking any laws or geographical restrictions when I do so.

[GERGE]

While watching Hulu with a VPN is a clear breach of contract, it is not illegal. But DVDs are not digital and when you buy them, you buy them. When you are importing a DVD, you do not sign a custom contract; indeed, such custom contracts themselves are illegal under consumer law. As long as you pay any taxes that might occur, importing DVDs are alright.

But Hulu is different. Hulu is a special service with its own contract. This is from the contract you agree when you sign up with Hulu:

You may not either directly or through the use of any software circumvent any digital rights management mechanism including geo-filtering mechanisms.

So, DVDs and Hulu are not the same things. Both situations are legal but one breachs a contract.

I hope this clears things a bit. A breach of contract isn't the same thing as an illegal act, people always confuse them.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by jandrew

And the entitlement to steal (from the evil empire) rationalization gets worse ... fast.

But it's okay for the "evil empire" "paying 0.1% on billions, pretending it is earning money not in the UK, but in Luxembourg?" Isn't that also "the entitlement to steal"? Both are theft.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GERGE

I hope this clears things a bit. A breach of contract isn't the same thing as an illegal act, people always confuse them.

It could conceivably be a breach of tort law - a civil matter - but, as you say, not a crime.

[Doonge]

Basically the author is the article is saying (among other things)

- the offer from Pirates is sometimes better than the legal offer (because, for instance, it's inexistant).
- geo restrictions are annoying on the internet.
- "pirating is stealing" is a bullshit line, and the claimed loss are lies.

And, even though I think piracy is "bad", I agree with those points.

I don't care much about the legal aspect of it though, I see that as a waste of time. It seems obvious to me that the best way to "fight" piracy is simply to offer good (and cheap) legal offer. Making laws, hiring people to hunt pirates (like mgbino?), is ultimately pointless and just hurts the dumbest and the poorest people. I'm not pitying the dumb and the poor, I'm saying it's a petty red queen race.

If someone who's not living in Region 2 manages to view Region 2 DVD (by "legally" buying them and "legally" buying a reader), then that's kinda cheating. "Legal" or not, I don't care. And I don't think it's bad, but let's call a cat a cat: this is bypassing the intent of (artificial) geo-restriction.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Out of region is *not* the same thing as geo-restricted.
Geo-restricted means "not authorized for sale".
Out of region simply means "not intended for", or "not marketted to", or even simpler "import".

Try buying some original japanese anime DVDs: no hoops needed. There are plenty of authorized vendors.

That is why region-free DVD players are legal.
Importing is not illegal.

Not exactly. There is an official region code means that a DVD can play in all regions. Anything else is by definition Geo-restricted. At one time, you read about importers being raided, but for the most part now, no one bothers.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Doonge

If someone who's not living in Region 2 manages to view Region 2 DVD (by "legally" buying them and "legally" buying a reader), then that's kinda cheating. "Legal" or not, I don't care. And I don't think it's bad, but let's call a cat a cat: this is bypassing the intent of (artificial) geo-restriction.

Who do you believe is being cheated? Not the rights-holder; they are being paid for their work. So who?

[latepaul]

The DVD example goes back to one of the fundamental disagreements/misunderstandings about digital products, and one of the arguments we keep on having in many forms - the difference between what you can (legally) do with a physical object that contains some copyrighted material, and what you can (legally) do with copyrighted material that you have access under the terms of a license.

I wonder if the upcoming generation, so-called "digital natives", will get this distinction more easily?

[jandrew]

Originally Posted by Rizla

But it's okay for the "evil empire" "paying 0.1% on billions, pretending it is earning money not in the UK, but in Luxembourg?" Isn't that also "the entitlement to steal"? Both are theft.

I never said anything at all about the "evil empire". I merely call bullshit on rationalizing stealing from the "evil empire" because they're "evil" ... and all you have to say in response is: But they're evil ???

Personally, I choose to not do business with, nor steal from, companies or people I find objectionable or "evil".

And, if you read the original blog further, after she outlines just how evil the empire is (and thus how OK it is to steal from them), she says that if you use the right statistics, piracy actually helps the evil empire's bottom line --- thus, by her own words she advocates helping the evil empire (but not the little people the empire exploits) by engaging in piracy. She wants to steal her cake and eat it too (without a guilty stomach).

[Doonge]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Who do you believe is being cheated? Not the rights-holder; they are being paid for their work. So who?

The rights-holders.