12% of ebooks are self-published; most are rubbish, claims editor

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Don't agents have a Fiduciary Duty to their author(s)? If so how can them being a publishing company employee be legal?

The agent and author's goals generally collide. But authors have been dropped by agents if they become too troublesome. A good agent makes her living by selling SEVERAL books per year to various publishing houses. OFTEN, that agent has a very good relationship with one or two editors who buy those books. She is not going to risk her entire income because one author is being a pain in the ass over a clause. If the author can't come to grips with it, it's much more likely that the author will be parting ways with both the agent and the publisher (before, after or during a deal.)

This is one of the reasons you will see complaint about agents. Agents perform a service--they get your book in front of editors because they have a working relationship with those editors. The better that relationship, the better chance of a deal, a faster read, etc. Some agents help with editing/prep and some don't. Some agents work harder to sell a book when it gets rejected by her top five contacts. Some don't.

The way the marketplace is currently set up, the author is also the last to be paid. The publisher pays the AGENT and then the agent pays the author. Agents make 15 percent of everything an author makes (or sometimes a bit more, depending on the type of right being sold.) Perhaps the hardest thing for an author to accept is that they are at the bottom of the power chain. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because as someone said earlier, not all authors have business acumen, many don't want the responsibilities, etc.

The difference is that now authors have more options and so do readers. It doesn't require that every reader out there read indies. It does require some do.

No one ever said it was easy to be a writer.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Don't agents have a Fiduciary Duty to their author(s)? If so how can them being a publishing company employee be legal?

Not really.
It's not as if you need a license or a degree to be an agent.
Want to be an agent? Hang up a shingle.

It would take an entire thread to list agent stories but one says it all: a prominent and respected agent died and his son in law, with zero experience took over the revenue stream, doing absolutely nothing to represent the clients (up to and ignoring contacts seeking to license their material).

Lawsuits are not uncommon.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Catlady

It clutters the marketplace and makes it harder to find decent books. It lowers the prestige of the writing profession--significantly. It devalues books. It adds to the already vast quantities of trash out there.

Here, this is a good one for you to check out:
http://goodereader.com/blog/commenta...ng-literature/

I would not recommend the comment section or the ongoing skewering going on at:
http://www.thepassivevoice.com/06/20...ture/#comments

He, too, believes Indie publishers are the killer rabbits of the publishing world and are killing literate. He even lists actual reasons for his beliefs, unlike Mr Franklin.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

He, too, believes Indie publishers are the killer rabbits of the publishing world and are killing literate. He even lists actual reasons for his beliefs, unlike Mr Franklin.

Gotta agree with he comments on the second link. Loads of sturm und drang, but I wonder how much of it is coming from the publishing and agent side of things and the "authors" are just regurgitating what they've been propagandized with.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by shalym

I just haven't seen this big reduction of which you speak. Can you give me an example? Have the number of books published by the big publishing houses gone down? Or have those numbers stayed the same, and we just have more choice now, because we don't have to rely ONLY on the big houses?

What has "number of books" to do with really good books?

The publishing process develops the author and also enhance the books a lot so the probability for a really good book increases.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

And those that don't will be disappointed by the market response.

No. Probably not since most people seems to be able to read just OK books and do not notice that they could be much better.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Excessive choice often leads to the burial of clear distinctions beneath a pile of insignificant variables.

The supposedly egalitarian idea that all journalism is equal discounts the relative importance of journalists who vet and verify their sources, and editors and publishers who strive for higher levels of excellence. The same is true of fiction and poetry.

If the absolutist's truth -- that everything is subjective -- becomes the only practical one, then the outcome is to bury our choices beneath infinitudes of mediocrity. The brightest among us will find their way to the best work but many of the rest will flounder when they could have received guidance and inspiration. "Just as good as George Eliot" is frequently not nearly as good, just as Aristotle's theory of gravity is far less useful than Newton's. No need to pretend the two are equal when they aren't.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

If you want tough to read, try Feersum Endjinn by Iain M Banks.
One of the characters 'thinks' entirely phonetically. (Starts at chapter 4)

I read that a few years ago, and after a few pages you get used to it and you can read it at normal speed. But I bet it was a nightmare for the proof-reader, assuming it was first published in the days when big publishers still used proof-readers.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by teh603

Gotta agree with he comments on the second link. Loads of sturm und drang, but I wonder how much of it is coming from the publishing and agent side of things and the "authors" are just regurgitating what they've been propagandized with.

Oh, about 90% would be a good guess.

See, when the *establishment* slings the FUD, it is fully understandable; their livelihood is at stake, the status quo is something they understand, circling the wagons against change and all that.

That is easy to understand: it is basic human nature to lash out against a threat, real or imagined. And the name authors slinging the FUD about indies are just folk who have been well-served by the system as it exists. *They* got picked to have their books carpet bomb the nation, they sell enough to the masses that their agent's calls get returned right away. For now. But let the sales drop just a wee bit...

And that is where the Brad Thor's are coming from, whether they realize it or not. They have a good thing going in a once stable ecosystem. But now a "tsunami of crap" is coming ashore and they fear their ecosystem will be erroded and they personally will suffer.

Publishers, editors, staff and even author rants are understandable; misguided but understandable.

But when *readers* spread the FUD and over-generalizations? Well, that is just puzzling...

My best guess is some people just don't handle change well.
Which is not a fun thing, I suppose, given that we live in the twenty-teens and not the "genteel" eighteen nineties many folks still pine for.

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Again-Jac.../dp/0684801051

I think Alvin Toffler had it right from the start:

http://www.amazon.com/Future-Shock-A...r+future+shock

Which is sad and somewhat bewildering; me, I *like* living in the future and my main gripe is it doesn't get here fast enough.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

O
But when *readers* spread the FUD and over-generalizations? Well, that is just puzzling...

Well, as far as I can tell the rise of indies *has* made it harder to find new books I like. The filtering mechanisms aren't really in place yet. It's easier to find a fanfic that I like than to find a published indie book that I'm willing to spend money on. I don't have time to weed through books on my own using the very limited tools provided by ebook stores, and at this point I'd rather head to Archive Of Our Own to find reasonable quality fanfic, because I know there's a reasonable chance I'll find something entertaining in short order. There's a huge useability gap between something like AO3, or even how the LJ fandom community got themselves organized, and how little control and filtering ebook stores provide.

Once filtering mechanisms get put in place I think we'll see a lot less worry, but for now I can sympathize with people who feel overwhelmed by the new indie market. I've basically only bought backlist books for most of the past year.

[ProfCrash]

Or is it possible that people who want to read don't want to spend a ton of time sorting through samples to find something that they can read?

There has to be a middle ground between "Stop being lazy and do some research" and "Everything has to be published by publishers to be trusted". Yet when somone suggests that we get tossed into the lazy camp.

So how do we do that? Is there something that we can do on this board? Is it as simple as a topic in the reading recommendations sub board? Or shold we just post random individual topics "Looking for a sci fi book in this sub genre?" If that is the way to go cool. I will start doing that once I have dug out of my massive reading hole.

I guess I thought that by now there would be blogs that listed great indie authors. There probably are and I don't know where they are. Maybe a topic that is pinned that contains useful websites and blogs and the like.

I don't know, something. There are not too many people in this thread who are saying
they won't read Indies but there are people saying that they don't have the time to go digging to find the good authors. There are folks who have made some suggestions (I picked up the trilogy and will hopefully get to read during my vacations this summer) but still no mention of something structured.

I understand that an Independent Author might be less interested in something structured, some have flat out rejected that notion and I have seen a few who flat out were insulted at the notion, but it sure as heck would help people who want to give folks a go but don't want to read a ton of samples and ask for a recommendation every time.

Is there a middle ground?

Seriously, I knew that the baby would keep me busy but I invisioned nap times for reading and a bed time that let me read a bit and relax. Not inconsistent nap times, 9,000 chores when the baby goes to bed, and just playing silly games like Candy Swap and Plants vs Zombies as my destresser. Finding the energy to read has been a problem never mind looking for good indie authors.

[BearMountainBooks]

There are blogs. I blog and post reviews of good indie books. Here's a GR group where I'm a mod:

http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...-readers-group

(Authors: Do not join if you are going to post your book, your friends book or anyone you know. I have friends who are authors. I like their books. I do not post about their books even if I like their books. Don't do it.)

But finding books often ties in with a simple thread of: I'm looking for...

caleb has a blog and reviews indie books. They are out there. Is the sorting harder? I don't know. I'm very picky about what I will buy. Price matters, the library availability matters, etc.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I guess I thought that by now there would be blogs that listed great indie authors. There probably are and I don't know where they are. Maybe a topic that is pinned that contains useful websites and blogs and the like.

I've found book review blogs to be very unreliable. Too many factors are against the reader seeking a comprehensive unbiased recommendation.

Some only accept ARC or author freebies.
Some only accept limited genres or small subset of one.
Some are used solely as marketing for authors and publishers. "Featured"
Some only post "good" reviews.
Some reject to review outright books they know they'll dislike.
Some have reviews that are too basic and uninformative.
Some are paid outright.
Many are affiliates. These may only post "positive" reviews or deceptively so in order to get those fees. Fewer would buy a poorly reviewed title.
Some are inconsistent in their review system.
Some are more lenient in their reviews from struggling indie authors explaining away copyright errors.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Fbone

I've found book review blogs to be very unreliable. Too many factors are against the reader seeking a comprehensive unbiased recommendation.

Some only accept ARC or author freebies.
Some only accept limited genres or small subset of one.
Some are used solely as marketing for authors and publishers. "Featured"
Some only post "good" reviews.
Some reject to review outright books they know they'll dislike.
Some have reviews that are too basic and uninformative.
Some are paid outright.
Many are affiliates. These may only post "positive" reviews or deceptively so in order to get those fees. Fewer would buy a poorly reviewed title.
Some are inconsistent in their review system.
Some are more lenient in their reviews from struggling indie authors explaining away copyright errors.

Can't argue with this. All true on all counts. But it's true whether it's indie or trad in some of those cases.

One of the best review sites I've found for fantasy is

http://www.fantasyliterature.com/

VERY well-run, posts bad reviews, good reviews and anything inbetween. The only problem (for me) is that they very rarely cover indie work. They don't need to. There are plenty of books without them having to bother. But they do a great job with reviews. If you follow the reviewers on GR, you also get some comments there.

My hope with the GR group is that people will feel free to comment about books they are reading--without necessarily doing a review. For example I rarely review a DNF book on my blog, simply because it's DNF. But I'll talk about it if I'm reading it on GR as part of a discussion.

[fjtorres]

Actually, the problem (to the extent there *might* be a problem at all) is limited to the middle ground. The "extremes" have it easy:

If you are determined to only buy trad-pub'ed books all ebookstores let you filter books by price. That right there keeps the rabble at bay.

Or, you can look at the publisher tag. For most genres, from SF to LitFic, there are only a handful of brands you need to remember. (For SF, BAEN, TOR, DelRey, Orbit, Angry Robot, etc, are reputable trad-pub brands. Hydra isn't.) Under the Price Fix, "Price set by publisher" was a dead giveaway. In another year or two the BPHs will start negotiating new contracts and they'll be free to (non-collusively) bring back Agency so that tag will be useful once more.

Or, if you don't mind dealing with eeee-vile Amazon, you can use their advanced search feature.

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Searc...node=241582011

There you can specify that you want a list of all Kindle editions published by DelRey.

Wham, bam, here ya go: 7269 ebooks from DelRey.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_...rnid=618072011

If you want, you can then Sort by "New and Popular" or Price or Publication date or by customer Reviews...

It is even easier if all you're interested is one specific author or any of the very narrow sub-genre classifications; for the latter, you just go to the list on the left and it will show you only DelRey books tagged that way by DelRey. For example, if you click on ROMANCE on the DeRey list; you'll find they have 19 titles that are new and popular flagged as Romance, which can then by further refined as historical, contemporary, futuristic, etc:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_...4640&rnid=1000

The tools are there. And they're not hard to use; after all, Amazon wants to *sell* books. They don't much care as long as *we* are happy and keep coming back.

As a point of fact, Amazon offers *better* tagging tools to BPHs than they do Indies as KDP doesn't yet offer the fine-grained classifications as their inhouse tool for converting publisher feedstock into Kindle ebooks.

Of course, those of us that don't care about a book's provenance are more interested in the blurbs and covers and reviews, but those aspects are covered too.

Really, it's not hard to wade through the infamous "tsunami of crap".