Book publisher files mass BitTorrent lawsuit - Page 5

kennyc · 11-02-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

Hi,

Assuming this is to go after people who download and not people who made the pirate ebooks available... Silly question ... what keeps the accused from going out and simply buying old paperback versions of all of these books after the fact, and claiming they have already paid for the book? Unless you downloaded absolutely huge numbers of pirated ebooks, simply buying the book would be cheaper that dealing with this nonsense, wouldn't it?

I wonder how the courts would look at an illegal digital copy of an ebook you already own - as long as you do not give it away or post it for others?

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Simply owning one format does not give you rights to the same material in other formats. Format shifting is okay in some or all cases, provided you do the format shifting.

Sil_liS · 11-02-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

This article concerns BitTorrent users. The way BitTorrent works is that downloads are also uploaders, you download different sections of a file from lots of different people, while making available the sections you already have to still more people.

This discussion happened before. Wasn't this becoming illegal sharing starting from the point when the file is 100% downloaded?

HarryT · 11-02-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

Hi,

Assuming this is to go after people who download and not people who made the pirate ebooks available... Silly question ... what keeps the accused from going out and simply buying old paperback versions of all of these books after the fact, and claiming they have already paid for the book?

Entirely irrelevent. Owning a paper copy of a book doesn't give you the right to download an illegal copy of it.

DustyDisks · 11-02-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I see your point, but I honestly think that the downloaders are just as guilty as the uploaders. I very strongly suspect that the overwhelming majority of people who download illegal eBooks from BT, Usenet, etc, know jolly well that what they're doing is illegal.

Both party's are guilty of breaking the law if they know the books are copyrighted. When you buy a book and look, there will be a copyright warning printed in it, giving legal use of that book in the form it was bought in. That copy can be resold or given away.

These arguments are like the old "Chicken and Egg" rationalizations.

The uploading and downloading of copyrighted material for mass distribution is illegal unless you own the copyright.

IMHO!

mr ploppy · 11-02-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Entirely irrelevent. Owning a paper copy of a book doesn't give you the right to download an illegal copy of it.

Apart from anything else, not having the right to copy it in any way or store it in a retrieval system is built into the copyright page.

Larken · 11-02-2011, 10:20 PM

I tend to use bittorrent and other sources of books as more of a try before you buy system. If I read the first of a series or a new author and enjoy it, then I buy their stuff. As for not having the right to to download that which I own in paper format, I'm not sure about the legality. I know there are a number of books that I've purchased in a bookstore and then downloaded a normally less than legal copy for my ebook reader to have it for convenience. I tend to see music in the same way. If I owned the music on a cassette in my younger days, I don't see the issue with downloading an mp3. I don't feel that I'm doing anything morally wrong. I'm not sure how the law views it.

HansTWN · 11-03-2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larken

I tend to use bittorrent and other sources of books as more of a try before you buy system. If I read the first of a series or a new author and enjoy it, then I buy their stuff. As for not having the right to to download that which I own in paper format, I'm not sure about the legality. I know there are a number of books that I've purchased in a bookstore and then downloaded a normally less than legal copy for my ebook reader to have it for convenience. I tend to see music in the same way. If I owned the music on a cassette in my younger days, I don't see the issue with downloading an mp3. I don't feel that I'm doing anything morally wrong. I'm not sure how the law views it.

Legally it doesn't matter if you own the CD or the pbook when downloading. (it doesn't make sense with MP3s since you could just get them off your CD!). But I do see your point, "morally" it definitely is in a different category than just straight downloading. But the big question is, why support such websites that mainly exist to help people to break the law?

emellaich · 11-03-2011, 12:12 AM

Truthfully, I doubt this is about the money collected from illegal parties. I bet that the cost of suing and collecting largely offsets any money's gained. Especially since many of the parties won't have the ability to pay substantial sums.

I think purpose of these fines is to deter potential future downloaders, not really to collect money from those who have already downloaded.

HarryT · 11-03-2011, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larken

I tend to use bittorrent and other sources of books as more of a try before you buy system. If I read the first of a series or a new author and enjoy it, then I buy their stuff. As for not having the right to to download that which I own in paper format, I'm not sure about the legality

Be sure. If you live in the US, this is not legal.

murraypaul · 11-03-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

This discussion happened before. Wasn't this becoming illegal sharing starting from the point when the file is 100% downloaded?

I find it very unlikely that sharing 99% of the book would be considered legal.
In fact, at least in the UK, I'm sure that it wouldn't be.

Soldim · 11-03-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I find it very unlikely that sharing 99% of the book would be considered legal.
In fact, at least in the UK, I'm sure that it wouldn't be.

More interesting is whether sharing 99% of a compacted file is illegal if it is not even partially usable unless it is 100% intact.

Sil_liS · 11-03-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I find it very unlikely that sharing 99% of the book would be considered legal.
In fact, at least in the UK, I'm sure that it wouldn't be.

I was an Erasmus student in Italy a few years ago and it was legal to copy pages from a book as long as it wasn't the whole book. Typically this was done by going to the shop twice.

murraypaul · 11-03-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I was an Erasmus student in Italy a few years ago and it was legal to copy pages from a book as long as it wasn't the whole book. Typically this was done by going to the shop twice.

It may be legal to copy a small portion of the book, yes, there will be fair use exceptions allowing this in various situations.
It is not legal to repeatedly do so until you have copied the entire book.

whitearrow · 11-03-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcey

I think they got the story wrong. It was Acme Lawyers that filed the lawsuit on behalf of Wile E. Coyote.

I'm sorry, but you have this wrong. It was Wile E. Coyote who sued the Acme Corporation for products liability back in the 90's.

whitearrow · 11-03-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

How else would you suggest that they be prosecuted? You're not suggesting that piracy is acceptable, and that people who break the law SHOULDN'T be prosecuted, are you?

Nobody's being prosecuted for anything here. This is a civil lawsuit, not a criminal proceeding.

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11-02-2011, 10:20 PM	#66
Larken Where's the backlight?? Posts: 52 Karma: 2089116 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Device: Samsung Galaxy Tab S 8.4 and Kobo Glo HD	I tend to use bittorrent and other sources of books as more of a try before you buy system. If I read the first of a series or a new author and enjoy it, then I buy their stuff. As for not having the right to to download that which I own in paper format, I'm not sure about the legality. I know there are a number of books that I've purchased in a bookstore and then downloaded a normally less than legal copy for my ebook reader to have it for convenience. I tend to see music in the same way. If I owned the music on a cassette in my younger days, I don't see the issue with downloading an mp3. I don't feel that I'm doing anything morally wrong. I'm not sure how the law views it.

11-03-2011, 12:12 AM	#68
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	Truthfully, I doubt this is about the money collected from illegal parties. I bet that the cost of suing and collecting largely offsets any money's gained. Especially since many of the parties won't have the ability to pay substantial sums. I think purpose of these fines is to deter potential future downloaders, not really to collect money from those who have already downloaded.

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